Mostly agreed with txbasschik, with one addition -- thus kind of horsehockey tends to go on in any well-funded, status-based organization. Someone's gonna have a nasty surprise on Judgment Day. :scowl:
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Got fired from my church gig...
- Thread starter Brad Johnson
- Start date
I once found a perfect church, and started going there...
... but then it wasn't perfect anymore.
... but then it wasn't perfect anymore.
jive1
Commercial User
I add to this and say that this kind of stuff happens in any organization that has people in it. I've seen similar bad politics in non-profits, hippie communes, street gangs, bands, social clubs, families, and basically anything where there is a regular interaction of different people.
This. Again, it wasn't the church, it was a few of the people.
Thanks for the kind words, Jong. Me requiring charts was the main complaint the MM gave the new MD, who had no reason not to believe it. When I heard that I literally LOL'd. people who know me know I'm pretty much a mutant.
On last minute, more involved songs that I didn't have time to listen to very much I'd find the lyrics and add notation using the lyrics for timing. Worked great... once done I could play along with any song flawlessly. Of course by Sunday the MM would spring the "Oh, we do that one in F, not Ab like the CD" on me and I'd transpose on the fly from my notes and still nail it. Just the process of writing it down helped burn it into memory. I love a challenge and made it a point to give them nothing legitimate to complain about. In fact I know I made them sound alot better by simply laying a solid foundation... something they were lacking up until that point.
I also don't argue about music... if that's the way you want to play that song, that's the way I'll play it. No big deal. The inconsistency from verse to verse was just one more thing to deal with and I did, with a smile. So when I saw the BS start flying, I knew I wasn't going to quit... that's what they wanted.
Tomorrow will be my first Sunday off this year.
- Aug 16, 2003
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I got fired from a Church gig last March,it was a situation where they had a ton of turnover in the 2 1/2 yrs I worked there we went thru 8 musicians mostly due to pastoral interference. I got caned because the guy who was the MD when I got there had been forced out after the first year and was lured back and given absolute power over personal which he didn't have his first go around,his long time friend needed a gig and he wanted a ally so I was out.I was cool about it, IMO part of being a full time gigging pro is the fact that you move from situation to situation,but It got really deep when I brought up the money I was owed for extra services and recording sessions. I actually got threatened by the Sr Pastor for bringing up my money owed,I told him he better bring a few more bodyguards with him if he wanted to go there LOL.
I grew up in church so seeing this kind of thing is not unusual,the fact that people are put into positions who have agenda's is common and ,for a gigging musician with a pro work ethic, this can be very frustrating.
I grew up in church so seeing this kind of thing is not unusual,the fact that people are put into positions who have agenda's is common and ,for a gigging musician with a pro work ethic, this can be very frustrating.
I think he's asking for new teeth or at least a new set of tires for his car.
You don't mess with my money and I don't care who's robe you're hiding behind.
We can dance if you wanna.
Funny, just had a conversation with my drummer this morning before Easter service about this type of BS that happens at churches.
We came to the conclusion that the problem with Christians (and I include myself in that category) is the we are still people, and sometimes people just suck.
We came to the conclusion that the problem with Christians (and I include myself in that category) is the we are still people, and sometimes people just suck.
I've met a lot of truly sucky people at church. More than in any bar.
Read "The Screwtape Letters", by C.S. Lewis. It explains why we so often find Christians who behave this way. This kind of thing is, evidently, the best way to tempt a good Christian to he11. Brilliant little book.
Cherie
I've never been in a perfect church. Just ones where the people always had some kind of issue with me. I like myself pretty well, so I decided to not hang out with people who think I'm screwed up and need fixing and need to behave in a totally different way. If I want someone to question everything I do and everything I enjoy, I'll hang out with my relatives.
Cherie
I've met some really beautiful souls at church.
Most of them were not in charge of anything.
I was asked to be in the church band at the church where I worked. I declined. They were totally at the mercy of a pastor and his wife who did not like popular Christian music, or bluegrass, or Southern gospel...they wanted only classical music or music from the hymnal. They were mean to the musicians, even tho the congragation liked the variety in the music. I did the church's Sunday morning bulletins, and they would make me leave out things the band was going to do, change the set on them in mid-week, not include titles by popular artists...it was like they wanted to kill the band by making them look bad.
Awful.
On the flip side, the church I grew up in had a great music program, and I credit them with the bulk of what I know of music.
Cherie
Right? I'd rather go hear the sermon, do the readings, maybe find a good book to start on. Choir? Church band? Committees? No, thank you. I like my sanity.
Cherie
I was right there with you... until about 10 years ago, when I started attending the church I'm at now. It was my "last chance" church because I'd had enough. I grew up a PK (my dad is a pastor for the uninitiated, PK = Pastor's Kid) and saw more than my share of backstabbing and all around bad behavior from Christians. My dad is one of the greatest people I've ever known, one of those pastors who actually walks the walk he's talking to everybody else about on Sundays. Not going into a lot of detail, but he eventually left the ministry for a while and sold real estate after a particularly bad episode at a church he was at for over 10 years... youth pastor, a couple of "his people", some rumors, and a 3 way church split later and dad was finally through. He's back in ministry now, which is good, but it took him and mom a long time to trust anybody again.
Anyway, this church isn't perfect, by any means, but it's the best place I've ever been associated with. Over 2500 people on Sunday mornings and we still meet in a multi-purpose room (read:glorified gymnasium) because rather than spend money on buildings they give a lot away to the poor and needy. We still have building projects, but they're to meet needs not wants. We built a great children's wing recently, and are in the process of building a new office wing and a small chapel to handle weddings and funerals in a more traditional setting than a gymnasium. We always build with cash and always have, no debt - ever. Pastor and his wife make a decent living but not extravagant by any means - about what you'd expect for two degreed professionals, one with a Master's Degree, in our area, probably significantly less than most with those credentials actually. The rest of the staff is likewise paid fairly well, but not out of the ordinary for their skill and educational level. Intentionally multi-cultural, very diverse racially and economically, no favoritism, etc...
After being ready to be done with churches 10 years ago, I'm now considering going to seminary...Anyway, it takes some looking but there are some really neat churches out there, some big, some small.
You are very lucky then.
I have yet to find such a place where they don't have a problem with the fact that I play rock music, hang out in bars with serious club bikers, and drink beer and bourbon, with no intention of stopping any of that. When I do, I'll be there every Sunday. But not in their choir or their church band. Just sitting there, listening, is all I care do to anymore. I don't do politics very well.
Cherie
"The Screwtape Letters"...feeling superior, or craving power, is the best way to make a Christian fall to damnation. Truly brilliant book.
Cherie
This is actually right in line with biblical teaching. There will, in fact, be hypocrites and people who invoke God's name in order to enrich themselves. It's even a common expression, they are called wolves in sheep's clothing. The flock is warned to have wisdom in this regard (not be weak-minded).
Apologies..
Being Holy week had tons and tons of bookings.
Wrote some 300wpm abbreviated notes hoping they'd help discussion.
Unfortunately the intial entry had church gig issues written all through it -- absolutley nothing about ability, talent etc.
====
I'd love to discuss the non-talent issues that caused the termination.
I get tons of emails about this stuff - would love to reread it beginning to end and establish if/how it could have been avoided. My opinion is that a church gig is MUCH more like being in a pit orchestra than other situations (even if you're on stage).
IF the pain is too big to dialogue, it's possible this thread may be too early.
Being Holy week had tons and tons of bookings.
Wrote some 300wpm abbreviated notes hoping they'd help discussion.
Unfortunately the intial entry had church gig issues written all through it -- absolutley nothing about ability, talent etc.
====
I'd love to discuss the non-talent issues that caused the termination.
I get tons of emails about this stuff - would love to reread it beginning to end and establish if/how it could have been avoided. My opinion is that a church gig is MUCH more like being in a pit orchestra than other situations (even if you're on stage).
IF the pain is too big to dialogue, it's possible this thread may be too early.
