Got fired from my church gig...

[MNAirHead]

IF it could be made very susinct, I could pass the notes to a few notable leaders accross the country.

Would love to hear how we as bass players can become more valueable.

 

[ratdog73]

Someone's gonna have a nasty surprise on Judgment Day. :scowl:

Have they set a firm date yet?

 

[Rocker949]

I've never been in a perfect church. Just ones where the people always had some kind of issue with me. I like myself pretty well, so I decided to not hang out with people who think I'm screwed up and need fixing and need to behave in a totally different way. If I want someone to question everything I do and everything I enjoy, I'll hang out with my relatives.

Cherie

Since I have been posting on TB, I have never read a post that I identified with as much as this one. This describes my own feelings so accurately, I am truly amazed. Not only are the comments about other Christians accurate, but also the ones about relatives. BTW, I just sent a PM.

 

[phatbass]

Would love to hear how we as bass players can become more valueable.

Stand up the back, STFU, and play the root...

 

[MNAirHead]

Stand up the back, STFU, and play the root...

True if it wasn't for committees.. a chain of leadership.. playing for mixed audiences.. and on and on and on.

===

Jimmy M was very correct when pointing out that managing a record label deal was easier..

seems as the higher the bar..the more congregants.. the bigger the budget etc - the potential manage the leadership (and PR) issues arrise.

====
Still bummed for you - we've all been through this... had thought of you all weekend.

 

[baddarryl]

I haven't read the whole thread, but I get the picture. I am so grateful to be on our Worship team. Everyone knows each others abilities and short comings and helps each other out. A sound man that cares and knows what he is doing. The Pastor is the leader and cool as can be. Heck I even kicked his 1980's USA Strat down the steps stage left during service one morning and all he did was laugh! My Pastor keeps screaming "More bass, more bass, more bass!" Yessssss! God is in the mix and I am grateful! Plus we rock! My only gripe is I wish they would get rid of those darn Fender guitar amps and throw some Boogies on stage!

 

[SteveC]

I guess I'm lucky to be where I am. I won't say there aren't issues from time to time, and "politics" are everywhere, but there are with almost any band/gig. Nothing that makes me not want to play, though.

 

[RustyAxe]

I got to page 4 in the thread ... and stopped reading. What strikes me most is the absolute disregard for the Biblical prescriptions for handling conflict within the church. The pastor should be ashamed of the way he has failed to teach these very basic concepts to his ministry team, if indeed he knows and practices them himself.

While I am a church-goer, bible reader, bible teacher, mission oriented member of my church, I steer clear of the CCM and other modern performance ministries of my church ... way too much "me" and not enough "Thee" for my liking. I have much less trouble with Christians who play secular music on Friday and Saturday nights than I do with secular musicians playing "Christian" on Sunday morning.

 

[txbasschik]

I haven't read the whole thread, but I get the picture. I am so grateful to be on our Worship team. Everyone knows each others abilities and short comings and helps each other out. A sound man that cares and knows what he is doing. The Pastor is the leader and cool as can be. Heck I even kicked his 1980's USA Strat down the steps stage left during service one morning and all he did was laugh! My Pastor keeps screaming "More bass, more bass, more bass!" Yessssss! God is in the mix and I am grateful! Plus we rock! My only gripe is I wish they would get rid of those darn Fender guitar amps and throw some Boogies on stage!

You are very lucky and blessed!

Cherie

 

[txbasschik]

Since I have been posting on TB, I have never read a post that I identified with as much as this one. This describes my own feelings so accurately, I am truly amazed. Not only are the comments about other Christians accurate, but also the ones about relatives. BTW, I just sent a PM.

One of my dear friends recently had to leave town to get work. I miss her. We used to have our own little Bible study at the bar once a week. It was nice.

Its not that Christians are better or worse than others. Its just that the temptation to power trip seems very strong in churches.

Cherie

 

[txbasschik]

Apologies..

Being Holy week had tons and tons of bookings.

Wrote some 300wpm abbreviated notes hoping they'd help discussion.

Unfortunately the intial entry had church gig issues written all through it -- absolutley nothing about ability, talent etc.

====
I'd love to discuss the non-talent issues that caused the termination.

I get tons of emails about this stuff - would love to reread it beginning to end and establish if/how it could have been avoided. My opinion is that a church gig is MUCH more like being in a pit orchestra than other situations (even if you're on stage).

IF the pain is too big to dialogue, it's possible this thread may be too early.

Pit orchestra is a very good comparison, especially if the band is large. You do have to be able to give yourself over to a more structured leadership, as in an orchestra.

Cherie

 

[txbasschik]

Have they set a firm date yet?

Nah. Its a surprise party. The History Channel keeps trying to figure out when it is, but I think they're just insecure 'cause they're afraid they're not invited.

Cherie

 

[txbasschik]

They sound blissfully unaware of their own incompetence.

You'll probably be back there someday, because church regimes change just like governments do, and there will be somebody left there who remembers and likes you.

Then they'll move some other poor soul out the door, to make room for you.

That's showbiz for ya.

Thanks for the story, Brad.

True! Depending on the denomination, sometimes you just have to wait for a new pastor or music director to come around.

Cherie

 

[RustyAxe]

You think liars, manipulators, untrustworthy people and thieves are devout Christians? You must also think that anyone who claims to be a great bass player is a great bass player.

Thanks for the chuckle. I think you nailed it ...

 

[txbasschik]

This. Again, it wasn't the church, it was a few of the people.

Thanks for the kind words, Jong. Me requiring charts was the main complaint the MM gave the new MD, who had no reason not to believe it. When I heard that I literally LOL'd. people who know me know I'm pretty much a mutant.


On last minute, more involved songs that I didn't have time to listen to very much I'd find the lyrics and add notation using the lyrics for timing. Worked great... once done I could play along with any song flawlessly. Of course by Sunday the MM would spring the "Oh, we do that one in F, not Ab like the CD" on me and I'd transpose on the fly from my notes and still nail it. Just the process of writing it down helped burn it into memory. I love a challenge and made it a point to give them nothing legitimate to complain about. In fact I know I made them sound alot better by simply laying a solid foundation... something they were lacking up until that point.

I also don't argue about music... if that's the way you want to play that song, that's the way I'll play it. No big deal. The inconsistency from verse to verse was just one more thing to deal with and I did, with a smile. So when I saw the BS start flying, I knew I wasn't going to quit... that's what they wanted.

Tomorrow will be my first Sunday off this year.

Well...transposing on the fly is good for ya, like broccoli. I still don't understand why they had a problem with charts, if its just you making notes for yourself. Its not like you were showing up with charts for the whole band.

Cherie

 

[txbasschik]

Ha! Devout Christians! In my lifes's experience they're the biggest liars, the biggest manipulators and the most untrustworthy people Ive ever associated with so far in my life! History will tell you the same. Read my past thread about the great Christain that STOLE my bass! Sorry it went down like that Brad, but you're better off.

I wouldn't say that. There are bad and good folks everywhere. I've been helped and hurt by Christians, Muslims, Jews, athiests, pagans...whatever. Its the often-negative politics of a church band that I wish to avoid, and that I believe Brad has experienced.

I truly believe that power is a venue for temptation to the old sin of pride. People get a little power...over a church band, over a committee, etc., and they freak out on it. That's where the hypocracy and mindgames and what-not comes from.

Cherie

 

[busmandan]

Yes, I once played in a P&W band. The first our church ever had, in fact. It was launched to provide the music for the "contemporary" service to bring in more young people.

While many of the same things that happened to Brad (i.e. clueless volunteer soundmen, keyboard player going off the chart, songs thrown in with no notice, etc.) also happened to me, in my case I don't believe there was any malicious intent. Rather, what happened in my case was more the fact that the people running the show had no idea what they were doing. And yes, I saw a lot of behavior during that time that made me question just how close to God some of these people were - at times, i felt like covering my head in a feeble attempt to ward off the lightning bolts from above I felt sure were imminent in response to their actions.

In my case, the whole thing fell apart after about a year. Most of the people involved in the thing have left the church, and those who haven't no longer participate in the music ministry - including me.

 

[Walking]

Interesting story. One might think that the presence of the Lord would somehow bring peace and harmony to the church staff, but it does not.

I played bass with a church worship group for about three years a few years ago. Not as dramatic as your story, but the music director simply didn't like me and with insensitive comments and her manner towards me gradually took all the fun out of it and I quit. There is another church that has asked me to play for them, and I am thinking about it--maybe agree to a trial period or sit in a few times to ensure that I can bail without a lot of hard feelings.

One quick humorous moment. Though I didn't need so much power, I had a carvin 18" cabinet and an old ashly pa amp that seemed to weigh 90 pounds and put out mountains of undistorted low E when the situation arose.

So, the pastor is doing announcements or something and I am dinking with my bass and the cord comes out. It sounds like a shot from a gun with a 600 watt transient hitting that 18 inch speaker, and everybody in the church jumps. The pastor looks over kindly, and the music director gives me the "I am trying to kill you with my eyes" look.

I can smile about it now, but it was embarrassing at the time.

 

[Walking]

Another post reminded me of the awe I held for our piano player, a 60-something woman. She could sight read at full speed and it sounded perfect the first time, every time. I recall one day when they decided to play a piece up a fifth. She agreed and sight-read it while playing up a fifth, transposing in her head as she played.

What a privilege to see such a gifted musician in action.

 

[Walking]

Oh, one last thing. The attendence in the contemporary service was dropping off, and I heard rumors that the pastors were sort of laying it at the feet of the music group--they somehow unerringly determined the preaching wasn't the issue. The music was fine, if boring, and it just shows the politics that go on. They were going to 'change' something about the music to 'fix' the service, but some years later, it was the same folks, except me, playing the same songs in the same way.

I was on the finance committee of another church some years ago, and they were building a large new sanctuary because they happened for a year or two to be financially solvent, and financial stability inevitably leads to building projects so the more normal state of financial crisis can be restored.

In any case, I kept hearing stories about the expensive new setup for the music. The worship music was being run by some wanna-be recording stars, and they were getting the church to pay for expensive equipment that happened by coincidence to help them with their projects as well as work for services.

I used to refer to the music department there as The Pentagon due to the vast sums of money they consumed. When I inquired into the spending of the building committee, my hand was slapped, and I was told they had their own budget and were completely autonomous. And of course, when it was all done, the building project was significantly over budget, and the pastor was begging for money to solve the financial crisis.

I think the best way to find church rewarding is to go every sunday, and keep out of the back-office operations.