Got fired from my church gig...

[Brad Johnson]

Agreed. I'm less naive now because of this.

 

[lebdog]

These replies got me in tears! Gotta love getting screwed by a pastor! I have worked for 2 church's which were total rackets. Give one 30K donation, they (tax free church) cut your brother back a 27K check and a write off for 30K (that was kaballa).

At least you got to play some good music and get applause for your work. Oh yea, you didn't get that either. What's the heck do you want from a church.

Amazing how long this post has been drawn out and how many similar stories there are. Makes you think this whole Jesus thing may be exploiting less nimble minds or something...

 

[JimmyM]

Amazing how long this post has been drawn out and how many similar stories there are. Makes you think this whole Jesus thing may be exploiting less nimble minds or something...

two words: the vatican. that's been the church's mo since time began.

 

[svtb15]

There are alot of good churches out there... there must be..
And at times i would even play for free.. But it has to be special...

But i do resent when a pastor will ask the band to play for free meanwhile hes pulling down a nice mid 6 figure salary , drives a Mercedes and wife has a hummer..
I told him, i make a deal with ya, ill play for free if you don't pass the plate today or receive any donation at all..
No one ever took me up on it. hey im in business just as they are...

 

[walterw]

When my church was building their new worship center the Building Committee swallowed the "audio consultant's" recommendation hook line and sinker...

...Fast forward, last year we finally brought in a different guy (who does P.A. for all the big time bands when they come through as well as all the major local festivals)...

slightly OT, (and before this devolves into a religion-bashing thread and gets locked), but there's a saying in pro audio circles that churches always buy their sound systems 3 times.

first they try to just scrape together used junk for no money.

then they get convinced that more=better and spend a ton on stuff, all with no clue how to install or run it.

finally, someone figures out that there's actual skill and knowledge involved and gets a proper system, properly deployed and run.

 

[Stumbo]

This should be fun.


I subbed at a medium sized church for most of 2009 and they asked me to come on full time for 2010. I took a lower saleary than I normally would because I was playing with another musician I work with on a regular basis. Throughout my time subbing I frequently got comments that I showed up more consistently on time and prepared than the regular members. people in the congregation seemed very happy with what I was doing.

By November 09 they had driven the then music minister out and the assistant MM took over. They decided to do away with all amps onstage and have the musicians only use monitors. I was told their equipment setup ran in excess of $200k. They decided to have myself and the guitarist share a monitor, which as the main source of sound seemed like a bad idea. It was in practice.

To go along with the $200k+ system they had a volunteer soundperson who knew nothing about digital boards... and yes, that worked out about as well as could be expected. For some reason the sound in the shared monitor was always distorted to the point where it was not only difficult to hear onesself, it was also extremely difficult to hear the keyboards. A bonus was having a keyboardist who would regularly play chord changes differently from one verse to the next and it was trying to say the least.

I offered many times to help them troubleshoot the sound problem and for some reason they never got around to doing it, repeatedly saying it must be a bad chord. I told them that while that might be a part of the problem, the instruments volume going up and down independent of each other, the complete dropouts and just generally bad quality of sound only when someone was sitting at the board were likely not coincidental.

On a fairly regular basis the MM would wait until Saturday, sometimes even very early Sunday before giving me the names of the music we'd be doing Sunday morning. Later on he found a hosting site for some of the music but even then he'd often tell me to just youtube the songs, not giving me an artist name nor version more often than not. This was in spite of me asking for music during the week so I could listen to it. In any event, even though I often worked Saturday nights I'd get on the music, chart it out and be prepared to play it each week.

There's a lot more that went on and I can get into that if needed. Because of the jacked up sound onstage at a full rehearsal we once again talked about how to fix it. I told them that for me the best thing would be to have a small amp that actually sounded like a bass guitar so I could hear what I was doing. The MM asked me if I'd use one of mine and I suggested they sell the big rig they were no longer using and get something smaller. The MM asked that I look into it and made it clear that we would try it with an amp.

I brought a small combo amp (smaller than the monitor we had) in the following Sunday and sounded 100% better. The guitarist still sounded distorted, so did the rest of the mix that we had in our monitor, I was just relieved that my sound for once didn't suck. I didn't play loudly, it was simply more clear.

Out of the blue a couple of days later the MM texted me and asked if I had left with my hat on Sunday. He also said the pastor asked what was up with me, I never speak to him. He also asked why there was an amp onstage.


I called the MM and asked what was going on. He told me what the pastor had supposedly said and I was pretty surprised, considering how I had spoken to him every time I was around him and we even talked about cars on one occassion. I asked how he answered the question about the amp, which he had told me to bring in and he didn't tell the pastor that he had okayed it. Typically when BS pops up it's for a reason. I talked to my friend, told him what happened and told him what I thought was going on: they're either trying to get me to quit or barring that, they're going to fire me. Never mind the fact that they had no reason to fire me, I was easily the most consistent performer there, I didn't create any problems and I dealt with the hand they gave me like a professional.

A couple of days later I got another text from the MM. He said he knew I was frustrated (even though I'd stopped saying anything about the sound) and that he and the new music director under him and the pastor were frustrated with me. I was not the fit they were looking for even though I was a great bassist so I was fired effective the end of the month.

Call me Kreskin. More to come...

Since I was genuinely curious about what they were frustrated with me about, I called the new MD, told him about the text and the first thing he said was:

"They put me in that?"

He didn't seemed pleased. He said he suggested we get together to air things out based on the one episode atthe first rehearsal he attended: I as usual sounded like Hendrix with all of the distortion but had decided that it was pointless to even bring it up anymore. That I would deal with it with a smile. The MM asked me how the sound was and I said it was okay, I'm fine with it. Because I was. And he could hear what I was hearing.

A couple of minutes later he asked again and I again told him it was okay.

A few minutes later he asked if it was better and I told him "No, it's not better, it's the same... who cares?"

That really set him off. He asked if nobody cares why are we there. I responded that if somebedy cared yet nobody has attempted to actually fix the problem, what's the difference?

He asked me what could be done to fix it and I told him the same things that I had repeatedly suggested but had not been done even though I'd been suggesting them for over four months.

We took a break and I ended up talking to the MD at length along with other musicians about what was going on. He had no idea and it was clear that I wasn't the only one with a set of ears. he agreed that if you aren't going to fix something, why keep talking about it.

So, back to the MD conversation...
I asked what the frustration was with me and he told me that came from the MM. And the MM had told him that I didn't know enough songs and that I couldn't play without a chart. Most people who know me IRL will find that hilarious. The only "charts" I had were notes I'd make on new music when I wasn't given time to actually learn it by ear... like getting a new song at 12:45AM on a Sunday. The MM and MD are both keyboard players and we both laughed about something the guitarist told me early on... the MM doesn't play things the same way twice. The MD said that he even had difficulty playing with him because even on old hymns the MM had his own non-traditional way of playing them... making him pretty hard to follow. On the newer music I was typically the only one who actually learned all of the accents and movements of the songs and that the MM took a that's close enough approach. At that same rehearsal we started a new song that began by playing the same pass three times. The MM played it once and went to the verse which caused a trainwreck. I asked if he was going to play that pass three times and he said said... he didn't think I knew the song.

Clowning me on the first rehearsal with the new guy. I said why would I know it, I got it yesterday but as usual I learned it. The MD remembered that exchange well.

So now it sounded like I had a problem with potentially two people instead of three. I called the pastor's office and requested a meeting. At the meeting were the pastor, the MM and myself. I started it off by saying I had no problem with the decision, I was curious about the alleged problems with me. That's when things really got interesting.

According to the MM he had done everything he could to make this work. He said that I had said this was the worst sounding gig I'd ever been on (a blatant lie with a nice trigger word ("gig") to setthe pastoir off. He said that we never discussed amps and that was something I did on my own. When I refuted that and mentioned the longstanding sound issues we had, the pastor said he thought all of that had been worked out. He asked the MM if there were any sound issues and he looked him in the eye and said no.

Frankly I was surprised that someone would lie that hard right in front of me but hey, live and learn. The MM went onto say that when he had asked me about bringing an amp in I said I would NEVER (his emphasis) do that and that my good friend would even back him up on that. The funny thing was that at a prior rehearsal he had said that he was not going to buy an amp... a discussion he flipped on the following week. Everyone at rehearsal heard all of this.

I asked why would we be talking about amps if there was no problem and we'd never discussed it (his story). His face went blank.

The pastor jumped in and said that we weren't there trying to find the truth, that there are three sides, etc... blatantly ignoring the lie the MM had just caught himself in. He said our relationship was now bad (think the lying had anything to do with that?) and we should sever ties. He had no idea how hard the MM had been clowning him and of course I didn't bring that up. They deserve each other.

I asked the pastor about me never speaking to him and he said yes, he had said that. Took me by surprise again. He said that when he walks in just before 9AM he usually waves and speaks to the musicians and that I never did until the prior Sunday. I know I've waved and spoken to him several times so I asked what was I doing when I wasn't speaking to him. He said he didn't know, he couldn't see me behind the half wall in front of the band.



So the idea that he couldn't see me at the time but I should see him didn't seem the least bit absurd to him. Now I really knew what I was working with.

The text said the firing was effective the end of the month so I asked them if they were expecting me to play the last two Sundays. The pastor said of course... they don't have moeny to just toss around. You had to be there.


So I finished out the last two Sundays. The sound sucked as usual, the guitarist was even more vocal about how bad it was to the point the MM came over and then went to the board and tried to fix it, I smiled internally and just played the music to the best of my ability as usual. On one song the pastor just started singing a song neither of the keyboardists knew so the paster's assistant and former MM jumped in and started playing. She actually played with confidence and it was very easy to follow her and we really played that song well, even though I'd never heard it before. Yep, it must be me.

That was funny on a couple of levels because the pastor seemed to enjoy chastising people on the mic. When he'd disrupt whatever musical program had been planned by the previous MM and sing whatever he wanted in whatever key he wanted, he'd glared at the MM and take him to task. So when the new MM took over one of the things loudly stated was that he wished the pastor would try doing that with him... he wasn't going to have it.

Uh huh.

It took maybe two weeks before the pastor did just that. A woman walked up and while testifying mentioned a song she liked to sing so of course that pastor decides we're going to play that song. The MM said we don't do that song and the pastor shot back, on the mic:

"You'll play it today"


At which point the MM started playing something trying to follow the vocal. Yes, I thought that was funny but I didn't LOL.

So that's the short version, believe it or not. There's alot more, including a completely inappropriate text the day after Christmas from the MM, the pastor's continued sexual harrassment issues that the MM couldn't wait to tell any anyone about and all sorts of other nonsense. While the money did come in handy, in the long run it certainly wasn't worth the drama. I wouldn't be surprised if they were actually obtuse enough to ask me to sub again.

Power, lies and incompetence know no bounds....

Sorry you had to go through all that.

What bible do they read from?

 

[bradjonesbass]

This whole story rings home to me...
I had a similar situation, very good paying too for 3+ years. Started out subbing, then they asked me to come on full time. It was a satellite church with TV broadcast..
Was full time for 3 years total, and i loved the gig..And my trip was 40 minutes.. tough when you get in at 3 am

Got constant kudos from the main pastor, the MD, etc, etc,.And the other church campuses other than the main campus would hire me for their services. Almost everyone in the band was on pro level as far as musical ability. I say almost everyone.

Suddenly last fall , longtime church higher ups pastors were leaving almost in droves being replaced by younger pastors....

All the while during my tenure i made any service i was contracted to.
Sometimes flying in the night before on a red eye and making 7AM sound check.

It was a mega church with a nice Meyer system and all the goodies you would see at any contemporary concert these days including lights m video etc. Pro sound crew too..

The drummer and i were areally the only two that knew our materiel week after week inside and out. It was made easy because they got us everything that we needed way in advance so that made it easy...

The other players were very capable but were slack in learning the stuff so soundchecks were gruesome.
At time to the point where I would have to write out proper changes for the MD since he nearly had no clue and only heard things one way which was not harmonically correct. And he would not learn a tune,,I had no issue in doing it , I just wanted everyone to be on the same page.. When the MD was on vacation I MDed and we got stuff done in no time....

Anyway, the MD was constantly telling me how wonderful it is to have me on board, how honored he was, how much difference i made to the church and the band.. And that i was the only one that was there on time and prepared ALL the time..

That was weekly, i was told those kudos for 3 years ... I could only say thank you..
Anyway last January the MD wants to meet with everyone.

He met with me and said that i have an unforgiving heart and fired me.
I have never been fired from a gig in my life, and have done major tours minor tours TV, Radio, commercials,you name it..

I said an unforgiving heart? mmmmm weird coming from someone that has issues that i will never say in a public forum....

I had to fight for the money they owed me .. but i got it after my lawyer sent a very nice letter.
I have dealt with pagan death metal management companies to pop star greedy basstard NY lawyer mega agencies and never once did they try to screw me the way a church tried to.

But i got my money. And now its in the rear view mirror.. I wish them the best and i have moved on...

The weird part is that i was caught off guard become for some strange reason i never thought that a church would act in such a way, during and afterwards...
So i feel ya pain.. Been there..
Just look back as an experience that we will learn from.

mega-church; Houston, TX; Satellite campus... you've probably signed a confidentiality agreement or something, but that's pretty obvious... Play a lot of Israel Houghton songs did you?

 

[steveksux]

Hey, Brad, sorry to hear that, hope you had plenty of fun while it lasted...

I hope that the lying backstabbing MM has at least accepted Jesus as his personal savior...

Randy

 

[SBassman]

Run.

Sounds like there are two important things missing there:

- Real music.

- God.

 

[svtb15]

its a gig... cash is cash....beats flippin burgers...hahha
I always figure that gig was just the one between my last one and my next one... its all good...
i had to chine in though because brads story was parallel to mine in certain ways.

mega-church; Houston, TX; Satellite campus... you've probably signed a confidentiality agreement or something, but that's pretty obvious... Play a lot of Israel Houghton songs did you?

 

[bradjonesbass]

I dig Houghton a lot. Did you ever get to play with him when TP was out of town or anything?

 

[svtb15]

No actually i never played with him.. I know of him though... i was at another church.... but very similar.. i prefer to not mention names here though..

 

[jacohead]

Thou shalt not haveth thine amp onstage...come on didn't you know that one?

lololol Now that is funny

 

[PhatBasstard]

Sucky experience.
Well, at least they paid you and didn't burn you at the stake for playing flatted 7th's.
(Or was that minor 3rd's? I can't remember anything.)

 

[zaubertuba]

....the details don't matter - "they" want you out of there and you are gone and that's that...most likely the new music director has someone else in mind for the bass position and there will be more changes coming soon...

x3, Unfortunately. Sorry to hear you've been put through the wringer like this. Sometimes new "leadership" often means pretty
major staff turnarounds. In some cases maybe this is a good thing, in others (like yours) it takes a decent situation and turns it into an awful one.

Does make me glad I'm a volunteer. I do a folk service (very minimal tech.-only vocals go through the church PA) once a month with these baby-boomers who don't have any formal training--but they flat out rock! They're always very self-effacing, I think because they know I have a music degree--and I always laugh because I'm the one who's blessed and fortunate to be playing with such solid musicians (both in chops and in hearts).

Hope you find a church gig where you can actually minister without all the grief. I hate to say it but I've seen a lot of mega-churches deal with these kinds of political issues. Might not pay as well, but perhaps a smaller, more "community-minded" church might be a nice change of pace? I'll be praying for you.

 

[Munjibunga]

All this is one reason I sleep in every Sunday (props to Jimmy).

 

[joebar]

Sucky experience.
Well, at least they paid you and didn't burn you at the stake for playing flatted 7th's.
(Or was that minor 3rd's? I can't remember anything.)

the evil tritone... oooohhhh....

 

[steveksux]

I always thought it was the diminished chords that were the Mark of the Devil? Bah, what do I know, I gave up going to Church for Lent...

Randy

 

[otis_thick]

First let me say this is not against or for any religeous beliefs

Here is my take on this First are you playing at church becaus you are a beliver or just the money? If its just the money C'est la vi- If you are a beliver the next time you are in that situation- just point out how unrighteous the MM is I MEAN GO THROUGH THE LIST in front of the entire congregation and if they do not do the right thing then YOU should not be there! I am no-ways perfect but I hate hypocrisy !

 

[joebar]

That would be my preference but I'm a realist.


The truly frustrating part about my situation was that it could've been remedied so easily... they just didn't want to. According to the MM, the pastor's compensation package is in excess of $200k. He made himself the head of the commitee to hire his replacement and placed a cap on the new pastor's compensation... less than half of what he was getting. And he has a retirement package that pays out $1M over 10 years when he leaves later this year.

Again, according to the MM they can find funds when they want to, if it's for something the pastor wants. They could hire a competent sound person... they just won't. All of this stuff came up in normal conversation whenever the musicians were together.

He also talked about how people have left the church because of how it's run and other things that have happened.

Then he fell right into the groove.

how big is this church!!! good lord look at those numbers...
i went to a church audit once and when i saw that less than 5% of monies collected went to benevolence funding and to help the needy, that is when the seed of doubt was planted many years ago.

i have never been so hurt by people as i have been in church.
i am a good hearted person who just wants to believe in something a little bigger than himself like many others do.
it is true- i get very ticked off when the church cannot afford to pay their musicians, but they can afford the mansion on the hill and the armani suits.
but then again, IME the churches always got what they payed for- players that played like they were volunteers cause no one would pay for that. lol
remember- IME. it is all i have known; as for some of you others that have been to churches with professional players- what planet is that? mind you, i am in canada...