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Graphite necks vs. headstock tuners?

the #1 advantage of a graphite neck is consistent, uniform tone over the entire range of the instrument. Every note on the fingerboard speaks with the same clarity, authority, attack, and timbre.

+1,000,000

It's especially noticeable when you get up to the 12th fret and start playing triads...each note rings out clearly where on your typical Fender they blur together. Also longer sustain...my Steinbergers will sustain for about 30 seconds if desired.
 
All of my basses seem to be a wee sharp when I pick them up. If I just tune them, they will be a wee flat after a few minutes of play. Before I tune, I play for a minute or two on a Fender, or run my hands up and down the neck of my upright to warm the strings. This usually puts them right or very close to it, even before retuning
 
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I have owned graphite-necked instruments by Status, Moses, Peavey, Emerald, and Miller. The tuning stability of the "all-graphite" ( neck and body) basses have been the most rock-solid. Co-incidentally, the very best were the headless ones with the straight-pull tuner assemblies.

The value for me isn't that I don't have to tune them every time I pick them up - so much as that I can rely on them not to go out of tune while I am playing. The only trick I have noticed is to get the strings up to playing temperature before hitting the record button (in a typical room, the cold unplayed strings drift a tiny bit sharper than they were when I tuned them 'warm' after playing for a while...)
 
Started thinking I should get a graphite neck. Then realized I could save thousands of bucks simply by using the tuner more often.
:laugh: :thumbsup:
that's how the pros do it! they save thousands of dollars by tuning before/during every recording/playdown/practice session. tuning is 'a thing' --- always play in tune! having to tune is not 'a thing', it's expected that you "get in tune." that said: part of the expected competency of your instrument is that it will stay in tune while you're using it if environmental conditions accommodate.

Would anybody mind giving a clue to an old newbie?
clues:
- you're making it "a thing" and in real-life bass playing = it's no big deal! ;)
- if it's mostly wood = even dead wood still interacts with the environment. :laugh:
- strings interact and change, too. between the strings and the wood parts = having to 'tune up' is expected.
- if the ax will hold its tune over the course of time you're playing it in 'that session' = you're good to go!
- if the ax won't hold tuning during that session = possibly a problem. tuning machines? strings? extreme environment?
- if the ax holds its tuning for months at a time = big whup! it's less a matter of money spent than it is of luck! :D
- finally: don't make it "a thing." tune up and play.

If you don't check if your bass is in tune every time you go to play as part of your practice routine, are you even a bass player?
i don't know of any musician who does not check tuning. even acoustic piano players check tuning (not that they can necessarily do anything about it!).
 
After 35 years, I'm playing again, and bought a headstock tuner. Every few days, I put it on and notice the entire bass is a little off -- either all sharp or all flat. Now I know why folks cared so much that graphite necks on boutique basses hold tune so much better -- I never knew that wood necks drifted so much so easily.

Started thinking I should get a graphite neck. Then realized I could save thousands of bucks simply by using the tuner more often.

Then wondered "Is that the only advantage of a graphite neck -- holding tune?"

Would anybody mind giving a clue to an old newbie? Thanx everybody.
You should always play in tune.
 
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Of course (and someone correct me if I'm off here), quartz tuners are so accurate that it shows you're off a few cents day to day is only a fraction of a 1/2 step, so you're dealing in a very small amount of drift out of dead-on-the-money.

I've also found that making a bass stay in tune is a combination of the relative stiffness / hardness of the woods involved, properly cut nut- and bridge-slots, the keys themselves, how the strings were put on those keys, a lot of little steps that can add up to how well THIS bass stays in tune relative to THAT bass. These things are easier to see after and understand if you understand how to set up your bass, the whole process.

The advantage to carbon fibre is that it's utterly repeatable in strength, hardness, and whatever tone it adds, or to some people, how utterly transparent with no tone. That hardness is the real key: As others have noted, they found the same thing I heard the first time I played one of the original Steinbergers, the tone is the same at any fretted spot up and down the neck. One of Ned's ideas was that where his carbon blend became resonant to the bass' frequencies was way above the audible range: That self-induced resonance is why so many wood-necked basses can have that 'dead spot' just below the octave on a lot of basses. Alembic sought to do the same with wood by having the many laminations of different woods with their ebony fingerboard scatter this same phenomenon to minimize it. A very hard neck really becomes a factor with fives or sixes with that low B: In my experience, the harder and stiffer the neck, the better the B-string becomes more articulate.

But then, carbon fiber necks can have their own unique problems. Not all of them have truss rods, and the baked-in, permanent relief may not suit every user, and on some, replacing frets can be a headache. And for me, they just feel unwelcoming, I miss whatever I perceive as that 'wood feeling'. But that's me.

I've never owned a bass with real tuning problems. I'm very fussy about that, and learned what I need to do to make them do what I want. I worked in a music store for several years, and invariably, almost every recently purchased guitar or bass that came back with tuning problems almost always had owner-induced problems that could be fixed with a little schooling and new strings.

It's just another choice that's available, and you'd have to decide if it's right for you.

But there's a difference between a bass with serious mechanical or structural problems that affect tuning (which is fairly rare) and the typical axe that will creep a little sharp or flat, which to me is normal.
 
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If you don't check if your bass is in tune every time you go to play as part of your practice routine, are you even a bass player?

Jokes aside, if you really want to go down the graphite path, check out Status Graphite necks. I hear they're some of the best out there.
Status makes simply great necks. Great Fender J and Ps plus Stingrays. All fit perfectly.

The workmanship is unsurpassed. I’ve used them in a couple of parts basses and swapped one in on a MIM P.

The sound is very solid and balanced - strong fundamentals to sweet highs. Never clanky. Oh and they’re graphite, too.
 
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ive got 3 ibanez premium basses,2x5 string,1x4 string all with wenge and bubinga necks with titanium reinforcement. I always check my tuning as part of my routine but it’s extremely rare that they need any adjustment. My newest a 2605 multilaminated neck is beautiful,rock solid stable and to me nothing feels as good as a wenge neck (everyone’s different just my preference).
i’ve also had a Kramer 650b since the 70’s and it goes out of tune with temp change more than any bass i’ve had.....but it stays in tune once acclimated,is beautiful and sentimentally is my most valuable instrument to me
 
One of my basses is a 2016 Fender Jazz Elite 4 string with 4 year old TI flats. There have been times when I haven't played it for a month and it's still in perfect tune or not very far off. I also have a 2 month old NYC Satin Sadowsky 5 with the original strings and it requires tuning daily. Especially the B string. I'll put new strings on it soon and see how stable the tuning is then. But even though the Sadowsky hasn't been as stable as the Elite so far it's still an awesome bass. (So what? I have to tune it before I play it, isn't that the norm?).

If the neck moves then the tuning will be either all flat or all sharp. With the Sadowsky some strings might be slightly flat while others can be sharp so that tells me the neck is not the cause and more likely to be the roundwood strings need to be changed.

In other words, if all or most strings are sharp or flat then the cause is likely to be the neck wood slightly moving due to varying temp and humidity. It's just the nature of wood easily expanding or contracting. Graphite should be very stable since it is not susceptible to any temp or humidity changes. Although, I'd still want a truss rod in a graphite neck.

I always tune up before playing or just practicing and I would still do that if I had a graphite neck since there are other factors that effect tune besides neck movement.
 
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Tuning stability comes down to the quality of the tuners, how accurately the nut is cut, how stable the bridge saddles are, the quality of the strings and most importantly how well you've wound the strings on the tuning pegs. Stretching the slack out of a string by tuning to pitch, pulling it up and away from the pickups and tuning up again will always help. Repeat this step until you stop pulling them flat.
All my guitars including a Steinberger and a Parker drift slowly out of tune over time.
Well put, @Roland GR 88 ! My sentiments exactly. I'm an old timer and that's how the old timers taught me. Also, do graphite necks make the neck heavier? I don't know, never owned one. I check my tuning every time I start playing my bass.
 
Thanx to all for the tips and advice. Special thanx to Bob_Ross, Dincrest and Thumpin6string for kindly explaining to this old newbie about some of the other advantages of graphite necks:
- uniform tone across the neck
- reduced twist and warp (but possibly a sterile tone)
- improved sustain and harmonics

For the others that got distracted about the (sometimes) reduced need to tune, I probably should have provided more information. After digging out my basses from the closet after 35 years, I had my main axe appraised. It turns out a '61 Jazz in Lake Placid Blue is worth so much that I'm afraid to take it out of the case, and I'm shopping for something to actually play instead, and was wondering whether or not to get graphite. To you folks, I say thanx for the opportunity to humble-brag. ;->

Anyway, any other tips and advice on graphite necks?

Either way, stay well everybody. Like my least favorite TV commercial says "We're all in this together."

Thanx,
Lucky Chuck
 
Lots of different factors here such as the seasonal change, how old the strings are, how they were strung on the posts, whether the bass is in and out of the house regularly etc. I’m not really sure that I trust those clip on tuners anyways. Never used one, heard they can be mediocre.
 
I remember back around 1994 or so when Alphonso Johnson was telling me about his Modulus basses, he mentioned that during outdoor gigs in colder weather, the graphite neck felt colder to the touch than his wood necked basses.
 
i get it if a bass won’t stay in tune for like ten minutes. But I tune much more often than every few days. Normally ill check to make sure I’m in tune about 4 times a set and if I’m tracking in the studio every single time Im not playing and I’ve never complained about it. As for basses With wood necks not staying in tune, I think it’s more caused by other things. Like cheap tuners or new strings that haven’t fully settled in despite efforts to stretch them. woooden necks aren’t just made out of wood. They have truss rods and often steel or graphite reinforcement. Graphite necks actually have to be designed to be able to move or you wouldn’t be able to adjust the neck relief at all. the entire wooden necks not being stable thing is more so for people touring and going from one extreme to another temperature and humidity wise. Back when I was touring up and down the east coast and putting basses in a trailer and practicing in storage units that didn’t have air conditioning I did have a lot of issues with necks moving. But a trailer is like an oven and it’s hot and humid out here. For the last decade or so I’ve really not had many situations with necks moving unless I switched to a different type of strings that change the amount of tension on the neck.

as for headless systems, they need to be extra stable or it would drive everyone nuts because unlike a regular bass you can’t really pluck a string And adjust the tuner simultaneously unless you’re plucking the string with your fretting hand or something. You basically have to pluck a string and then adjust it while it’s ringing out which can actually get annoying if you have a really precise tuner that shows the note going slightly sharp due to the excursion of the initial attack of the string.
 
The thermal expansion coefficient of wood (along the grain, as it is in a bass neck) is less than that of wood - by quite a bit. If a bass with a wood neck goes out of tune due to temperature changes, don't blame the wood - it's the strings that are changing.

If a graphite necked bass stays in tune better, it's because the graphite expands more than the wood - closer to what the steel strings do - that would mean the graphite neck is less stable than the wood.
 
Based on my experience -- I currently own three graphite-necked basses, two of which I've owned for over 35 years -- the #1 advantage of a graphite neck is consistent, uniform tone over the entire range of the instrument. Every note on the fingerboard speaks with the same clarity, authority, attack, and timbre.

I have three as well - two Modulus and a GG, and I can say that this is the exact reason why I vastly prefer them. I get absolutely spoiled by the note clarity and sustain. Tuning stability is just an added benefit.

I have also noticed when I’ve played on necks with carbon fiber reinforcement rods or those that use very dense woods, that there is usually a noticeable difference all around. I feel like I can tell when a neck is well built.
 

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