Graphite vs. Titanium neck reinforcement

[ctmullins]

I suspect single-piece necks benefit the most from reinforcing rods. As I said earlier, my multi-lam necks don't need any help.

 

[Killed_by_Death]

I once had a SR600 with a Jatoba/Walnut 5-pc laminate neck & it was The Flimsiest neck I've ever experienced.
It sounded OK, but I returned it immediately, the machine-head also was failing, as they tend to do on Standard Soundgear these days.

 

[ctmullins]

I once had a SR600 with a Jatoba/Walnut 5-pc laminate neck & it was The Flimsiest neck I've ever experienced.
It sounded OK, but I returned it immediately, the machine-head also was failing, as they tend to do on Standard Soundgear these days.

Dunno. Maybe they used crap wood. Maybe they didn't pay attention to grain orientation. Maybe the carve was too thin. ??

 

[zon5string]

Ah yes, the float-test, hadn't thought of that. I've been looking at the wrong materials density chart for years, but just found the same info you posted here.
Density of water = 1 = Metric System in action

 

[cnltb]

interesting , Thanks & KTS at that ! Good stuff . I'd rock it !
I love their bridges
View attachment 3619072

I think their bridges look fantastic but would like for them to allow string through stringing.

What kind of difference does titanium in the bridge actually make?
As in; how does the tone change from Brass/stainless steel/brass/Aluminium...?

Anything but wood in a neck is something I do not find an attractive idea though.

 

[Killed_by_Death]

It's not stiff.

Ti has a modulus of elasticity 10x higher than Maple, so it's definitely stiffer than Maple & seems to be a good choice for neck reinforcement.
Maybe the alloys used in the cycling world don't contain that much Ti. (or because they're thin & hollow)

There are at least 4 varieties of Ti alloys according to ASTM.

 

[zon6c-f]

Just this week I compared two instruments with reinforced necks, one Graphite & the other Titanium.
No, they weren't all that similar, so it wasn't that sort of experiment, but...

I did start thinking that part of the reason I preferred the Titanium-reinforced neck instrument was due to some quality that the Graphite-reinforcement imparts to the other instrument.

We already did the neck-through vs. screw-on poll, & whether it changes the timbre, so now let's discuss if the type of reinforcement has impact.

Some would say that neck-through instruments have a more compressed or subdued sound.
I felt that way about the graphite-reinforced, set-neck instrument.

My Zon neck is screwed in to body; synth neck and board And No truss Rod

I believe No rod is better overall but just my opinion ; all of my other bases have truss rods.

 

[roller]

Probably a poor design problem rather than a this tree/that tree/# of laminates problem.

I once had a SR600 with a Jatoba/Walnut 5-pc laminate neck & it was The Flimsiest neck I've ever experienced.
It sounded OK, but I returned it immediately, the machine-head also was failing, as they tend to do on Standard Soundgear these days.

 

[zon6c-f]

But my vote would be for Ti due to weight VS strength

 

[fretno]

I think their bridges look fantastic but would like for them to allow string through stringing.

What kind of difference does titanium in the bridge actually make?
As in; how does the tone change from Brass/stainless steel/brass/Aluminium...?

Anything but wood in a neck is something I do not find an attractive idea though.

I like them for several reasons but I don't think I can answer your question directly . I like them for the very light weight , perfect saddle size with no shifting around and perfect string spacing as well as it's great looks . They sound fantastic on every instrument I put them on . Better than Steel or brass , hard to say . Different sure that same subtle difference that other little things make but probably not a night / day difference that could be easy to gauge .

 

[cnltb]

I like them for several reasons but I don't think I can answer your question directly . I like them for the very light weight , perfect saddle size with no shifting around and perfect string spacing as well as it's great looks . They sound fantastic on every instrument I put them on . Better than Steel or brass , hard to say . Different sure that same subtle difference that other little things make but probably not a night / day difference that could be easy to gauge .

Thanks!
I like the weight and the look but have no direct experience. I miss those grooves that keep the saddles in line( as found on the hipshot vintage) and think that this would be a sensible upgrade to the present design.
The possibility to string through the body would also be very much welcomed at thsi end

What I can say is that since I put steel saddles onto my stainless vintage bridge which had previously worn brass saddles, I feel that it feels better. More natural harmonics and less inhibited in some way...more 'free'. Yes, I know that this description may very well only make sense to me .
That difference too is subtle and massive at the same time.

I'd love to try a titanium bridge!

What is the string spacing and are both saddlke options( threaded and non threaded) Titanium?

Thanks again!

 

[fretno]

Thanks!
I like the weight and the look but have no direct experience. I miss those grooves that keep the saddles in line( as found on the hipshot vintage) and think that this would be a sensible upgrade to the present design.
The possibility to string through the body would also be very much welcomed at thsi end

What I can say is that since I put steel saddles onto my stainless vintage bridge which had previously worn brass saddles, I feel that it feels better. More natural harmonics and less inhibited in some way...more 'free'. Yes, I know that this description may very well only make sense to me .
That difference too is subtle and massive at the same time.

I'd love to try a titanium bridge!

What is the string spacing and are both saddlke options( threaded and non threaded) Titanium?

Thanks again!

I agree , it would be a nice offering for folks . I tend to think Brass has a thicker , darker sound . Great for a telecaster but not always for a bass imo . Check the specs here Products-Bass｜KTS Musical Products inc.

 

[cnltb]

I agree , it would be a nice offering for folks . I tend to think Brass has a thicker , darker sound . Great for a telecaster but not always for a bass imo . Check the specs here Products-Bass｜KTS Musical Products inc.

Thanks for the specs link!
I never liked brass but do tend to like aluminium.

 

[Allegrus]

My anecdotal evidence strongly conflicts with yours - I have a bunch of roasted (which helps stability) necks with graphite reinforcements (which also helps stability). The only time I ever tweak a truss rod (I don't really have to, but when you have the tools to measure neck relief within a thousandth of an inch), you end up doing that...is when I change to a set of strings with significantly different tension. That changes neck relief a bit, so I compensate, but if I didn't have the tools to do that measurement, I'd probably be happy never touching my truss rods. On a regular maple, non- reinforced neck, I'd be chasing the truss rod adjustment when the weather changes - at least a couple times a year. I also have had standard necks that warped to where they were not longer playable - that doesn't happen with well made reinforced necks.

To be fair, it's not just MY evidence. Basses have been made for decades that aren't hot rodded and while you cite basses you have seen unplayable because of warped necks ... that's not a statistically significant sampling. If Necks warping was SO bad a problem for manufacturers, these hotrodding schemes would be STANDARD. Being able to adjust for wood movement in a neck with a truss rod is an ADVANTAGE of non-hot rodded necks.

I think the point here is that people are being sold a 'feature' at the expense of losing some real ability to setup their instruments. Or another way to think about it ... if your luthier is making you an instrument that needs reinforcement ... they should be picking their wood better. Honestly, the rods are just a reason to use substandard materials.

 

[MVE]

I think their bridges look fantastic but would like for them to allow string through stringing.

What kind of difference does titanium in the bridge actually make?
As in; how does the tone change from Brass/stainless steel/brass/Aluminium...?

Anything but wood in a neck is something I do not find an attractive idea though.

I would like to test bridge saddles and a nut cut from something super dense like tungsten.

 

[cnltb]

I suspect single-piece necks benefit the most from reinforcing rods. As I said earlier, my multi-lam necks don't need any help.

..neither do the single piece necks on my two main basses.

 

[micguy]

Being able to adjust for wood movement in a neck with a truss rod is an ADVANTAGE of non-hot rodded necks.

Or another way to think about it ... if your luthier is making you an instrument that needs reinforcement ... they should be picking their wood better. Honestly, the rods are just a reason to use substandard materials.

A roasted neck is stress relieved - the point is, it doesn't move - any movement that would occur during natural aging of the material is done before a neck is carved out of the wood. Yes, it isn't infinitely stiff, so your use a truss rod to compensate for string tension changes, like you do with any neck. Warping is not what truss rods were designed to counteract - unless the wood warping happens to be uniform and in the one plane that the truss rod acts, a truss rod won't help you with wood warping.

I think you missed the point on the reinforcement rods - the people using them are not the people using substandard wood. Quite the contrary.

 

[micguy]

I suspect single-piece necks benefit the most from reinforcing rods. As I said earlier, my multi-lam necks don't need any help.

Laminating a neck helps (in general, assuming they flip the grain so it counteracts itself) to keep a neck from warping. It doesn't change the stiffness of the structure, though - reinforcement rods do that, in addition to helping some with warping.

 

[Allegrus]

I think you missed the point on the reinforcement rods - the people using them are not the people using substandard wood. Quite the contrary.

As well, you missed mine ... you don't need hot rodded necks if people know how to make a bass neck in the first place. It's a market upsell feature to people that don't understand how wood as a structural materials works ... or apparently, why you would WANT to be able to adjust your neck.

And just to ensure we understand each other ...roasting a neck does not relieve the stress. It simply transforms the wood into something ... less 'wood' like to be more stable. Roasting a neck can actually INDUCE stress in wood and cause it to crack. I can see where hotrodded necks work with roasted necks. In fact, the consequences of roasting wood would almost require it because roasted woods are significantly more brittle. That still doesn't change my point. The funny part is that roasted necks are just as much an upsell 'feature' as the rods that are used to stiffen them. Almost like two problems that didn't exist until someone wanted to make some money.

 

[micguy]

It's a market upsell feature to people that don't understand how wood as a structural materials works ... or apparently, why you would WANT to be able to adjust your neck.

Putting graphite rods in a neck doesn't affect your ability to adjust it at all. It may make it less necessary, but the truss rods in all my "hot rodded" graphite rod reinforced necks work just fine.