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Groove VS Chops
- Thread starter TAOspeedwagon
- Start date
For a bassist, to paraphrase the old Ford commercial, groove is Job 1. Chops are nice, who doesn't want chops?
You know the old golf saying, "you drive for show and putt for dough"? , Well, for us it's "you have chops for show and you groove for dough!".
You know the old golf saying, "you drive for show and putt for dough"? , Well, for us it's "you have chops for show and you groove for dough!".
You can groove one note through an entire song, if you are so inclined. Chops can be cool, but if the chops don't groove they don't mean a thing.
I don't think you CAN have "one or the other."
I'd define groove as "playing the right note at the right time." (I don't mean "right" as in the note on the page, necessarily, I mean "right" as in the music, the band, the crowd, and the whole damn universe is commanding you to play that exact note, at that exact moment)
You can't do that, except by occasionally getting lucky, without chops.
Another way to put it:
Groove is the reason, chops are the way.
I'd define groove as "playing the right note at the right time." (I don't mean "right" as in the note on the page, necessarily, I mean "right" as in the music, the band, the crowd, and the whole damn universe is commanding you to play that exact note, at that exact moment)
You can't do that, except by occasionally getting lucky, without chops.
Another way to put it:
Groove is the reason, chops are the way.
Here's my take on it as a relative newbie on bass...
Chops are just like icing on a cake (cake being the groove) - it "enhances" the taste of the cake and make it more appealing. A cake without icing can be kind of plain and boring. The thing about it, though, is icing without the cake can make you sick if you tried to fill yourself with it without the cake; you do need the cake first if the icing were to be useful, don't you?
This is why I as a bass rookie try to focus mainly on developing a solid sense of rhythm (ie groove) by starting with something simple and fundamental and learning to do it well before I would even attempt to do anything fancy or showy (ie icing on the cake).
Based on what I've observed, a lot of Victor Wooten wannabe's make the mistake of starting with the icing without having the cake first.
Chops are just like icing on a cake (cake being the groove) - it "enhances" the taste of the cake and make it more appealing. A cake without icing can be kind of plain and boring. The thing about it, though, is icing without the cake can make you sick if you tried to fill yourself with it without the cake; you do need the cake first if the icing were to be useful, don't you?
This is why I as a bass rookie try to focus mainly on developing a solid sense of rhythm (ie groove) by starting with something simple and fundamental and learning to do it well before I would even attempt to do anything fancy or showy (ie icing on the cake).
Based on what I've observed, a lot of Victor Wooten wannabe's make the mistake of starting with the icing without having the cake first.
It's a no-brainer... maybe because my chops aren't much to speak of.
I am awfully fond of carrots, though.
I am awfully fond of carrots, though.
If groove refers to ones ability to keep time and to create and sustain a beat that moves others, and chops refers to ones ability to play Donna Lee at breakneck speed, I'll take groove for $50,000 please, Alex.
a BIG +1
I am a very flashy player (I'll just keep blaming it on my youth if you don't mind
) and I definitely have to remind myself of the times when all the "chops" aren't needed. All the times when I just need to sit back and remember to let the "groove" breathe. The problem is like it is stated above. You just can't have one without the other. No matter how technical you become, there will always be some sort of "groove" basis underneath that is allowing you to get to that point. "One cannot fly into flying" (I'll let you decide if that is a reference to Nietzsche or to Eddie Murphy)
All that being said, I think that technical skill will only get you so far. You have to be able to groove; to feel it all out. The main reason I want to play fast is because I know that I have to be able to play slow first. The theory being that if I wood shed enough, and improve my "chops" to a certain level (maybe not Jaco, but still) I'll be able to play the "groove" stuff, the "simple" stuff with tone, feel, and confidence.
I'm kind of too new to make a judgment or correct distinction, but I'd say groove comes first if groove refers to the basic rhythm and beat you lay down to keep things together flawlessly.
If chops means skills that ride on top of that flawless rhythmic groove, then I think that's a talent and ability that comes later, with experience.
If chops means skills that ride on top of that flawless rhythmic groove, then I think that's a talent and ability that comes later, with experience.
I would choose both actually. Whenever i play i always think about music, so the chops come naturally whenever i need to. Just take it this way, if you want to be a good bass player, at least you got to do something technical, you know? like, just be honest, sometimes we all want to go abit flashy and all that kind of stuff.
groove is good but to have chops is important, thats what distinguish you from other bass players. you cant just say groove is all, and no chops. music itself has varieties.
groove is good but to have chops is important, thats what distinguish you from other bass players. you cant just say groove is all, and no chops. music itself has varieties.
Chops are only as good as the musical idea they are being employed to convey. If the chops come before the music, then I'm not interested in hearing the results.
QFT. Dumb poll, IMO. Nobody ever has had chops without a good sense of time. You also need to have chops to groove. I still voted for groove.
I think some of these comments are a little on the hating side, though I promote grooving and as a bassist that is your job. There is nothing wrong with chops only if you maintain good timing and where to place your chops/tricks, I believe a great bassist is well rounded when grooving and playing chops. Remember guys like Jaco and Vic approached grooves in different ways and showed us playing the electric bass with no limitations.
