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Groove VS Chops
- Thread starter TAOspeedwagon
- Start date
Back in the early 80's i got the call to go on the road with Big name band at the time. (Country genre) We played with a Lot of different acts, them opening for us, us opening for them.
A great many back up bands out of Nashville were studio musicians. A listers. Glen Worf playing for Terry Gibb comes to mind. That cat has been the bassist on just about everybodys album.....top 10 single...u name it. Yes....he lays a groove a mile wide and 100 miles long.
Walked into soundcheck one day and b4 getting to the stage thought the sound company was playing the neatest jazz!! walked on stage and it was Terri Gibbs band warming up!!!! Worf took about a 5 minute solo. Melodic, synchopated and perfectly phrased!! Then.....right back in the pocket he went!!
Later that eve....caught him playin straight alternating country 4 beat........and somehow....rockin the crap out of that!!
I also think.....if u listen to anything that Victor Wooten says in his teaching dvds......its ALL about the groove. if u work on groove first...the chops will come....with dedication.
imho
A great many back up bands out of Nashville were studio musicians. A listers. Glen Worf playing for Terry Gibb comes to mind. That cat has been the bassist on just about everybodys album.....top 10 single...u name it. Yes....he lays a groove a mile wide and 100 miles long.
Walked into soundcheck one day and b4 getting to the stage thought the sound company was playing the neatest jazz!! walked on stage and it was Terri Gibbs band warming up!!!! Worf took about a 5 minute solo. Melodic, synchopated and perfectly phrased!! Then.....right back in the pocket he went!!
Later that eve....caught him playin straight alternating country 4 beat........and somehow....rockin the crap out of that!!
I also think.....if u listen to anything that Victor Wooten says in his teaching dvds......its ALL about the groove. if u work on groove first...the chops will come....with dedication.
imho
Wait a minute... are you saying you don't know the difference between "groove" and "chops?" What have you been listening to... or for that matter, playing?
Somebody help me out here. Let's start a pair of lists: one with songs that exude groove but doesn't display chops, another list that wanks along (soulless, zombie music) that shows off lots of technical prowess. I'll start (unless someone else has taken the liberty - I ain't read the whole thread yet).
Groove - anything by The Seeds
Soulless, zombie chops - anything by Rush :scowl:
Bring it on people!
Where do players like Bootsy, Flea, Jamerson, Duck Dunn, Jerry Jemmott, etc. fall into? The best groovers of all time all have (or had) serious chops.
By groove I'm assuming you mean rhythmic "feel"... and by chops, I assume you mean the ability to play (lots of) notes... with that assumption:
Groove is everything. The ability to play just one note, and make it groove, is significantly more musically effective than the ability to play a ton of notes in a "stiff" fashion... why?
Because, of the elements which make up music (Rhythm, Melody & Harmony) rhythm is the only thing that is universal. You can have music without melody and harmony, but not without rhythm. Jamerson, Babbett, Nathan Watts... not "chops" oriented players... but, IMHO, way more effective than guys who can play at the speed of sound, yet can't sit in the pocket. I spent years working on music theory, and gaining al the information I can in order to improve my chops... but 19 times out of 20, when you walk into a gig, the people in charge w. be much more impressed w. your ability to sit in a pocket than the amount of notes you play. Nowadays, I spend as much time as possible playing along to rhythmically complex music, and don't spend too much time thinking about theory (partially because I was lucky enough to have studied all of that in my younger years) because that's what's going to make me a more effective musician and land me more gigs...
Okay, no more TB, time to go back to playing along to Motown tracks.
/rant.
Groove is everything. The ability to play just one note, and make it groove, is significantly more musically effective than the ability to play a ton of notes in a "stiff" fashion... why?
Because, of the elements which make up music (Rhythm, Melody & Harmony) rhythm is the only thing that is universal. You can have music without melody and harmony, but not without rhythm. Jamerson, Babbett, Nathan Watts... not "chops" oriented players... but, IMHO, way more effective than guys who can play at the speed of sound, yet can't sit in the pocket. I spent years working on music theory, and gaining al the information I can in order to improve my chops... but 19 times out of 20, when you walk into a gig, the people in charge w. be much more impressed w. your ability to sit in a pocket than the amount of notes you play. Nowadays, I spend as much time as possible playing along to rhythmically complex music, and don't spend too much time thinking about theory (partially because I was lucky enough to have studied all of that in my younger years) because that's what's going to make me a more effective musician and land me more gigs...
Okay, no more TB, time to go back to playing along to Motown tracks.
/rant.
I don't think you can groove without having some sort of chops. I think the better question would be 'Pyrotechnics' or 'Groove'?!?! I choose groove! I'm an 'ensemble' player. I'm not a great soloist and shy away from doing so anyway! I can groove a bassline like a mofo though!
Sorry guys, but for me it's chops all the way.
There are notable exceptions, but as a whole, groove does nothing for me.
I'm a solo player personally, and there is very little, if any groove in my playing. It's all melodic stuff.
I have a pretty limited capacity for interpreting emotion and such, because I'm an extremely technical thinker, so that pretty much explains it.
There are notable exceptions, but as a whole, groove does nothing for me.
I'm a solo player personally, and there is very little, if any groove in my playing. It's all melodic stuff.
I have a pretty limited capacity for interpreting emotion and such, because I'm an extremely technical thinker, so that pretty much explains it.
As a complete newbie to the electric bass (but as a long-time tuba player), I would say groove tops chops.
Now...with that being said...I'm a chucklehead. Carrots?
Now...with that being said...I'm a chucklehead. Carrots?
vs
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dammit!!! totally stole my idea..
You know when you say a word to yourself a bunch of times until it loses meaning? I just read this thread from start to finish and I now hate the words chops and groove.
I had carrots for dinner though, so my vote is clear.
Im agreed with this. Playing groove without chops is fine, but really, looking at some serious cats like marcus miller, victor wooten, who can do both of them, do you REALLY want to just groove????
when you're talking about groove, you're talking about alot of stuff, really.. phrasing, timing, intonation.. seriously, without even realizing them, those things count.
i understand if some people are into james jamerson, but looking at that i'll give ya francis rocco prestia! he got massive groove and chops at the same time. see how it works? its all back to the music, really. and HOW you do it.
I just had to visit this thread because it's been bugging me. How does one have groove without chops? I can't think of one single player with killer groove and no chops. Someone please give me one example so I can put this out of my mind.
This seems silly, shouldn't having bass "chops" mean being able to groove? If we were talking about guitar, it's a different story. But for bass, isn't it one in the same?
Therefore, I answered carrots.
Therefore, I answered carrots.
