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Guitar as a Bass : Octave question

#21
IMHO - I think using and octave on guitar is great when trying to achieve a cool bass tone.

Just don't get wrapped up in attempting to cop a "true" bass sound.

I think of the White Stripes and The Yeah Yeah Yeahs when i think of really cool and at times tasteful use of an octave pedal on guitar for bass runs.

I say journey forth and don't be afraid to embrace how the tech changes your music.

Though as a bassist, guitarist, and vocalist, AND songwriter I HIGHLY reccommend you get your frontwoman into woodshedding singing and playing more. Saying that she can't sing and play well at the same time identifies an area where great possibilities lie with practice.

Good luck with the pedal search.
 
#22
Heh... interesting thread. Now to do something I'll regret later...

Going off of BassJunkie's band mentions... ever heard the song "Seven Nation Army" by the White Stripes? Jack White (a guitarist) uses a Whammy IV for the "bass" line. And in the song "Blue Orchid", he's using a POG.

Listen to those songs, and it might be helpful in your implementation of octave pedals.

But in general, it's really hard to NOT sound synthy with an octave pedal... it's the nature of the beast. Some are more "organic" sounding, however - for example, a lot of TBers have claimed that the EBS Octabass is rather natural-sounding. Never used one myself though.

You may not be able to "nail" a true, natural bass sound, but a lot of other guitarists have done it and gotten away with it... which is why some of my friends asked me to play "Seven Nation Army" when they first heard that I played bass... :scowl:

(Yeah, I really don't like the White Stripes... but it's a decent example of that effect pedal territory you're trying to jump into...)

Now, the Yeah Yeah Yeahs... that's a more appreciable use of the sub-octave effect. And they're actually a good band. :D
 
#25
Okay, here's what you do:
  • - Fire the girl.
  • - Hire a singer.
  • - THEN hire a bass player.
  • - Have the singer grow his hair long, blond, and shaggy.
  • - Make sure the bass player also plays mellotron.
  • - Have the drummer sign an agreement to drink himself to death in 9 years.
  • - Learn to play your guitar with a bow.
  • - Discover an inability to come up with names for your albums until the 5th one comes out.

I'm telling you, it works! You'll have great success, if not longevity. ;) :hiding:

Seriously, though - don't worry about people who say "Just get a bassist dude". You're on a path, and even though it's not going to sound quite like a bass doing it the way you're doing it, you'll learn an awful lot. Best of luck. :)
 
#27
+1 on the Roland PK-5 bass pedals + synth route - works great for me!

And I know I'll get hell for this, but I thought that 7 Nation Army was the Best Bassline Not Played On A Bass Ever.

Don't believe me? Watch any clip from a major game of Euro 2008!

I can't wait to add an octave pedal to my board.
 
#28
It's a lot easier for the singer/instrumentalist types to play a lead instrument. So I'd have the girl play guitar, since most of her bass skill set is transferable, and you can strap on a bass and play it like Lemmy from Motorhead or Jesse from Death From Above 1979. It's really easy to get a bass covering the lower guitar range, but it can be tough for a guitar sound to make sense in the bass range.

Of course, then you've got a lead singer who's also the lead guitarist - sooner or later, her ego might need to be checked.
 
#29
CeroFrio said:
Thanks to...most of the answers thus far.

I realize now that what I ask sort of irks the sensibilities of bass players...

"Oh god, one of them's trying to replace us with a machine!!!"

I hope I can appease some of you slightly, by letting you know what this is for.

I'm writing songs/building a concept band. It will be a three piece, myself, a singer/bassist, and a drummer. Where it gets interesting is the singer/bassist (a very talented old coworker of mine) will be singer first, bass second. Most of the songs will just be me and the drummer providing rhythm, me also handling the lead (hendrix/jack white/pete townsend influenced), and her singing. She'd only play bass when my octave system simply won't do, or to add something other than the bass line (bass as lead or something more ambient to create wall of sound type stuff). The style of rock we'll be doing, the bass would be mostly just hitting the root anyway, which is why my system kind of works.

So yeah...not trying to re-invent the wheel, nor cut you all out of the music industry. Just trying to get a little concept off the ground.

:)
Click to expand...

LOL

Ok dude, while we DO play the instrument you are trying to replace or moreso "model" or "simulate", the reason we find it to be a useless endeavor is because discerning ears will find something wrong with the sound right off the bat and effects can only take you so far. There's plenty of fretless simulators on a lot of multi-effects boards but they honestly dont beat getting an ACTUAL fretless or even come close in my opinion. Besides, you seem worried about it sounding more natural and you really can't get more natural than buying an actual bass or finding a bassist.

With how many crazy basses that are out there today, you could get by without a guitarist as well, but understanding that everyone in a band is essential and has a role is the first step towards being a BAND and a musician instead of somebody wankin off to how loud he can play and how many chromatic solos he can fit in.
 
#32
Look into what Scott Lucas from Local H does live. He uses an electric guitar with an extra bass pickup added on the lowest two strings. The signal from regular guitar pickups goes through to his regular effects & guitar amp, while the signal from the bass pickup goes through a Boss OC-2, through some EQ (not sure which) and into a bass amp. The rest is his technique making sure he's only playing one string and muting the other of the lowest two. Sounds decent. In the studio he records bass & guitar seperately.
 
#34
fretlessman71 said:
Okay, here's what you do:
  • - Fire the girl.
  • - Hire a singer.
  • - THEN hire a bass player.
  • - Have the singer grow his hair long, blond, and shaggy.
  • - Make sure the bass player also plays mellotron.
  • - Have the drummer sign an agreement to drink himself to death in 9 years.
  • - Learn to play your guitar with a bow.
  • - Discover an inability to come up with names for your albums until the 5th one comes out.

I'm telling you, it works! You'll have great success, if not longevity. ;) :hiding:

Seriously, though - don't worry about people who say "Just get a bassist dude". You're on a path, and even though it's not going to sound quite like a bass doing it the way you're doing it, you'll learn an awful lot. Best of luck. :)
Click to expand...

I would look forward to my occult phase...

tomvelsor said:
you know why it doesent sound like a bass? its not a bass!

seriously though, its going to sound synthy no matter what. dont fight it..embrace it..
Click to expand...

While I hear you and others about it sounding different from a real bass, I just refuse to believe that there's zero methods to make it more authentic. Even if it's just EQ the bass amp in a way I haven't tried yet. I figured actual bass players would be the authority on good bass sound (and the most of the answers have confirmed that).

BassJunkie730 said:
IMHO - I think using and octave on guitar is great when trying to achieve a cool bass tone.

Just don't get wrapped up in attempting to cop a "true" bass sound.

I think of the White Stripes and The Yeah Yeah Yeahs when i think of really cool and at times tasteful use of an octave pedal on guitar for bass runs.

I say journey forth and don't be afraid to embrace how the tech changes your music.

Though as a bassist, guitarist, and vocalist, AND songwriter I HIGHLY reccommend you get your frontwoman into woodshedding singing and playing more. Saying that she can't sing and play well at the same time identifies an area where great possibilities lie with practice.

Good luck with the pedal search.
Click to expand...

It's not so much that she can't, as much as she (and I) don't really want her to. Why would she need to play bass if she doesn't have to.

EADG mx said:
So why don't you just get a bass player? It will sound as authentic as you can get, and you won't have to worry about expensive effects and huge rigs.
Click to expand...

Instead I'll have to find someone who's reliable, get's the music, doesn't mind just hitting the same 3 notes for most of my songs, will let me control their rig as much if not more than them, and I enjoy being around. Plus, I'm going for this because it's different (even though Yeah^3s and White Stripes have already explored similar concepts)

:hmm:
 
#36
CeroFrio said:
I
Instead I'll have to find someone who's reliable, get's the music, doesn't mind just hitting the same 3 notes for most of my songs, will let me control their rig as much if not more than them, and I enjoy being around. Plus, I'm going for this because it's different (even though Yeah^3s and White Stripes have already explored similar concepts)

:hmm:
Click to expand...

Just try not to get caught up in if you could. Stop and ask yourself if you should. Sorry but I still think it's a bad idea. It's going to sound glitchy and processed no matter what you do - it's just no substitute for the real thing.
 
#38
The "just get a real bass player" comments are annoying but the more you manage to cop a "real bass" tone, the less of a point there is in doing what you're setting out to do. It's like growing tomatoes that taste like carrots, I'm sure with enough work by geneticists it could be done well enough to make someone say "oh yeah, that does taste like a carrot" but what would be the point?

I really like bands with strange lineups (DFA1979, Lightning Bolt, Morphine, Yeah Yeah Yeahs, etc etc) but what makes them cool is that the abnormal lineups make them sound DIFFERENT than a normal band. If you just do everything you can to sound like a standard rock band, then I don't see the point in not just getting a standard rock band lineup.
 
#39
baalroo said:
The "just get a real bass player" comments are annoying but the more you manage to cop a "real bass" tone, the less of a point there is in doing what you're setting out to do. It's like growing tomatoes that taste like carrots, I'm sure with enough work by geneticists it could be done well enough to make someone say "oh yeah, that does taste like a carrot" but what would be the point?

I really like bands with strange lineups (DFA1979, Lightning Bolt, Morphine, Yeah Yeah Yeahs, etc etc) but what makes them cool is that the abnormal lineups make them sound DIFFERENT than a normal band. If you just do everything you can to sound like a standard rock band, then I don't see the point in not just getting a standard rock band lineup.
Click to expand...

What a beautifully argued point. To this I say I simply don't like the sound I'm currently getting, and I assumed the sound I'd eventually like would be more like an actual bass. But you're very right, that's the wrong way to think about it.

You have just saved my concept from my own closed minded paradigm. Thanks!!!



BassJunkie730 said:
what abuot getting a bass and experimenting with loops?
Click to expand...

At the end of the day, I'm a guitarist, that's the instrument i enjoy playing the most, and I personally get the most sonic range out of. A while ago I had that kind of idea, and even through in a bid for a double neck guitar/bass on ebay. I didn't win the auction, and I'm kind of glad, since I was able to find my dream guitar later down the road. Plus, once again, I only have about 300 dollars to buy my sound, and I'd probably want at least a $600 bass, (unless i got lucky getting a something used). But that's another topic all together.
 
#40
Just try drop tuning the guitar and forget trying to pretend it's bass. Get that girl a nice fuzzy wall sound so she can slide in and out of the songs easily and your good.

You are a Lo-Fi fan? Right? It works well that way.
Think the gories, think the oblivians.
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