Guitar Center Struggling

[Brad Johnson]

IME that is not the case, I liked them before and I like them now. I've seen at least two grow to relatively healthy businesses over the last decade. If you get the megalithic Walmarts of music out of the way, more will have the opportunity. Not saying it will be easy or perfect, but you and I are both guessing at the outcome here and I choose to bet on the side of the indy stores.

Unfortunately most of the mom & pop stores back in the day operated as if they had a monopoly... which they didn't. They counted on folks not using other avenues, like travelling or mail order. The ones that succeeded figured out a niche to exploit.

When you figure out that there was more gear that GC didn't sell than did, blaming them for the poor business decisions of others loses its steam.

 

[DJ Bebop]

As for Sweetwater, I find them incredibly irritating. I know that's an unpopular opinion and that many people love them. I just can't handle the constant unwarranted e-mails/phone calls. I've asked my rep to stop calling me and he has, thankfully. But because of the harassment they're always a last option for me.

I must have not bought enough from them to get that kind of first-class treatment as far as follow up calls and e-mails. Nice!

 

[Xjenrbcjsmsbfjw]

Unfortunately most of the mom & pop stores back in the day operated as if they had a monopoly... which they didn't. They counted on folks not using other avenues, like travelling or mail order. The ones that succeeded figured out a niche to exploit.

When you figure out that there was more gear that GC didn't sell than did, blaming them for the poor business decisions of others loses its steam.

Meh, we're back to broad generalizations about shops based on opinions, and neither of us is going to convince the other. I'm basically of the opinion that, for an awful lot of reasons I'm not going to go into, mega-stores in the artistic/creative/specialty arenas are a bad thing.

I didn't have that experience with smaller stores, sorry to hear you did, and it's just an economic fact that larger chains drive out smaller businesses (for better or worse, I think worse) unless there is a reason to suspect that music stores operate substantially differently than every other type of retail.

I'd be glad to see Guitar Center go. I've really got nothing against them, and I definitely have nothing against the people who are employed there, but I prefer a retail ecosystem without that type of company in it, so I will always root for them to go by the wayside.

 

[willsellout]

Yes. I even asked her not to put the little bag of candy in the box, and the box has been free of that stuff ever since. I don't like candy very much. It's pretty nice when they both listen and remember.

Yeah she's great. When you work on the sales floor, you are put into a group of folks called a "neighborhood" and there is a neighborhood leader in that hood that is there to answer your stupid questions and help when you need it. She was my neighborhood leader for the whole year I worked there. She's my favorite person on that sales floor.

 

[Brad Johnson]

Meh, we're back to broad generalizations about shops based on opinions, and neither of us is going to convince the other. I'm basically of the opinion that, for an awful lot of reasons I'm not going to go into, mega-stores in the artistic/creative/specialty arenas are a bad thing.

I didn't have that experience with smaller stores, sorry to hear you did, and it's just an economic fact that larger chains drive out smaller businesses (for better or worse, I think worse) unless there is a reason to suspect that music stores operate substantially differently than every other type of retail.

I'd be glad to see Guitar Center go. I've really got nothing against them, and I definitely have nothing against the people who are employed there, but I prefer a retail ecosystem without that type of company in it, so I will always root for them to go by the wayside.

Your mistake is in thinking I'm trying to convince you of anything. I know better. I'm speaking from my experience, which while being fairly broad is not universal. BTW I'm not aware of how to make narrow generalizations.

I offered up a counterpoint to what I quoted. I've been shopping since the seventies and mom & pops tended to run their tried and true model into the ground. Charge what you want, carry what you want, no vision, no outside of the box thinking. In short take it or leave it. Even the larger M&Ps did the same. There were plenty of other things to sell when the big box stores showed up. Like service. And I think many folks also seem to forget that being a big box is no lock on of success. MARS Music anyone? Or the pathetic attempt Best Buy made a few years back. There are ways to work smart and I saw most of the M&Ps in this area fail to do that.

One of my favorite small stores, where I bought my first Tobias, was initially run by a nice guy with serious issues. Towards the end he had his son work in the store, who despite the stor being almost empty (as usual) would ask customers playing at low volume if they could turn down... he was trying to shoot the breeze with his girlfriend. That's the mom & pop people don't want to remember. Or the store in Fall Church where they wouldn't wait on you and when you asked for someone they'd ask "are you going to buy it?"

Good times.

BTW if GC goes, guess what will replace it? Most likely. nothing. How is a new brick and mortar going to compete with cutthtroat pricing, one day free shipping and long return periods?

 

[Brad Johnson]

Anyone else have a rose colored glasses look back on mom & pops?

 

[JimmyM]

Unfortunately most of the mom & pop stores back in the day operated as if they had a monopoly... which they didn't. They counted on folks not using other avenues, like travelling or mail order. The ones that succeeded figured out a niche to exploit.

This was true in my neck of the woods, too. Not all, because we had some truly great ones, but we definitely had our share of stores run by people who thought their poop didn't stink. Ace Music was a major offender. When they came to town, they raised the bar for arrogant service. I'd drive 10 or 15 miles more to go to other stores just because I hated going to Ace.

Meh, we're back to broad generalizations about shops based on opinions, and neither of us is going to convince the other. I'm basically of the opinion that, for an awful lot of reasons I'm not going to go into, mega-stores in the artistic/creative/specialty arenas are a bad thing.

I didn't have that experience with smaller stores, sorry to hear you did, and it's just an economic fact that larger chains drive out smaller businesses (for better or worse, I think worse) unless there is a reason to suspect that music stores operate substantially differently than every other type of retail.

I'd be glad to see Guitar Center go. I've really got nothing against them, and I definitely have nothing against the people who are employed there, but I prefer a retail ecosystem without that type of company in it, so I will always root for them to go by the wayside.

Within normal driving distance from my house are two Sam Ashes and two GC's. In between them, there are a lot of mom and pop music stores that have managed to thrive. Some have been there since the beginning of time. How did they do it? Like Brad said...they found niches to exploit that GC and Sam Ash weren't. Those who tried to compete with mega buying power directly went by the wayside. But Bass Central did it by specializing in high end bass gear nobody else carried and was a real pioneer in selling MI gear over the net. Dr. Music, a little mom and pop nobody ever heard of, specializes in getting beginners started with everything they need and gives lessons and does little workgroups. It can be done, and if it wasn't GC being a major player, it would be someone else. That's progress.

 

[DJ Bebop]

Your mistake is in thinking I'm trying to convince you of anything. I know better. I'm speaking from my experience, which while being fairly broad is not universal. BTW I'm not aware of how to make narrow generalizations.

I offered up a counterpoint to what I quoted. I've been shopping since the seventies and mom & pops tended to run their tried and true model into the ground. Charge what you want, carry what you want, no vision, no outside of the box thinking. In short take it or leave it. Even the larger M&Ps did the same. There were plenty of other things to sell when the big box stores showed up. Like service. And I think many folks also seem to forget that being a big box is no lock on of success. MARS Music anyone? Or the pathetic attempt Best Buy made a few years back. There are ways to work smart and I saw most of the M&Ps in this area fail to do that.

One of my favorite small stores, where I bought my first Tobias, was initially run by a nice guy with serious issues. Towards the end he had his son work in the store, who despite the stor being almost empty (as usual) would ask customers playing at low volume if they could turn down... he was trying to shoot the breeze with his girlfriend. That's the mom & pop people don't want to remember. Or the store in Fall Church where they wouldn't wait on you and when you asked for someone they'd ask "are you going to buy it?"

Good times.

BTW if GC goes, guess what will replace it? Most likely. nothing. How is a new brick and mortar going to compete with cutthtroat pricing, one day free shipping and long return periods?

Anyone else have a rose colored glasses look back on mom & pops?

Mom and Pop that when you came in the store, they would ask if you were going to buy something?

They traded in no-name Japanese knock offs. Their "premium line" was Univox. One would ask to try something. Again the question was asked, are you going to buy it? I asked to try a Univox P bass copy, ( which was actually nice). They would lock the front door and bring you the instrument to you and sit right in front of you, almost knee to knee. I got to play an A scale, then they would reach over and take it from you and ask, are you going to buy it now? If you say no, they would ask you to leave the store.

I always thought it was me until I begin to circulate in the local music scene and heard the same story from many who went in their store, once

 

[MordBass]

View attachment 3843432

Mom and Pop that when you came in the store, they would ask if you were going to buy something?

They traded in no-name Japanese knock offs. Their "premium line" was Univox. One would ask to try something. Again the question was asked, are you going to buy it? I asked to try a Univox P bass copy, ( which was actually nice). They would lock the front door and bring you the instrument to you and sit right in front of you, almost knee to knee. I got to play an A scale, then they would reach over and take it from you and ask, are you going to buy it now? If you say no, they would ask you to leave the store.

I always thought it was me until I begin to circulate in the local music scene and heard the same story from many who went in their store, once

I remember at Pro-Am music in darien il I asked to try out a wah pedal. The dude walked out from around the counter, plugged it into a combo, wailed a bunch of slap and soloing nonsense, then unplugged it all and went back to the counter.
I said that I was looking to try it out and he said "now you know how it sounds, buy it if you want to play it".

Yup, they went under like 5 years later after multiple downsizing efforts.

 

[Wilmingtonian]

Agree. And I did get the joke and your point the first time. But fun as it is for us to swap anecdotes back and forth, I get the feeling it might get old pretty fast for the rest of the folks slogging their way through the thread. So I thought it best we stop while it was still fun.

Stop anytime you like! Twain is still dead.

 

[MultiScaleMale]

Anyone else have a rose colored glasses look back on mom & pops?

No. They had one or two crappy basses that nobody really wanted. I bought my first real bass, a Steinberger, in '88 or '89 by calling Manny's in New York from seeing an ad in Bass Player and mailing them a check. No Internet then and phone calls were expensive. But, if I wanted something above entry level, that's what you had to do. And you probably had to go by the reviews in Bass Player to pick something. Damn, that's probably why I obsess over minute today. The only good mom and pop that I can remember was whatever the store was in Rockville that was purchased by Guitar Center to make into one of their stores. I remember them having a Tobias or MTD, blue body hanging up behind the counter that I wanted but didn't even try. It had this brown brown synthetic neck that I later found out was wenge. But it was way out of my price range then and I needed to buy silly things like furniture and kitchenware.

 

[Brad Johnson]

This was true in my neck of the woods, too. Not all, because we had some truly great ones, but we definitely had our share of stores run by people who thought their poop didn't stink. Ace Music was a major offender. When they came to town, they raised the bar for arrogant service. I'd drive 10 or 15 miles more to go to other stores just because I hated going to Ace.

Within normal driving distance from my house are two Sam Ashes and two GC's. In between them, there are a lot of mom and pop music stores that have managed to thrive. Some have been there since the beginning of time. How did they do it? Like Brad said...they found niches to exploit that GC and Sam Ash weren't. Those who tried to compete with mega buying power directly went by the wayside. But Bass Central did it by specializing in high end bass gear nobody else carried and was a real pioneer in selling MI gear over the net. Dr. Music, a little mom and pop nobody ever heard of, specializes in getting beginners started with everything they need and gives lessons and does little workgroups. It can be done, and if it wasn't GC being a major player, it would be someone else. That's progress.

I didn't think it was just me.

 

[Brad Johnson]

Most people would find it hard to believe how little above average gear was even sold in the Washington DC and Baltimore metro areas for a long time. The best boutique stuff was in a pawnshop on Eutaw. That's sad. I got used to having to travel early on if I wanted to find something nice. Like having to go to New York. The business was here, they just saw no reason to go after it.

Again, I'm clearly not saying all mom & pops are bad but geez, the preponderance of them in my travels all over the country didn't inspire confidence. And the really bad ones were memorable. I too have been in a store where a saleperson demoed a bass for me.

 

[JimmyM]

Most people would find it hard to believe how little above average gear was even sold in the Washington DC and Baltimore metro areas for a long time. The best boutique stuff was in a pawnshop on Eutaw. That's sad. I got used to having to travel early on if I wanted to find something nice. Like having to go to New York. The business was here, they just saw no reason to go after it.

Again, I'm clearly not saying all mom & pops are bad but geez, the preponderance of them in my travels all over the country didn't inspire confidence. And the really bad ones were memorable. I too have been in a store where a saleperson demoed a bass for me.

Yeah, and let me also say that there's always been a fair amount of competition in Orlando and surrounding areas, and we had our first high end music store that started in like 1971, so most places here had to be at least somewhat courteous and accommodating to survive.

BTW, that store is still very much alive, although their focus has evolved into mostly DJ gear, renting rehearsal space, and lighting.

 

[Xjenrbcjsmsbfjw]

This was true in my neck of the woods, too. Not all, because we had some truly great ones, but we definitely had our share of stores run by people who thought their poop didn't stink. Ace Music was a major offender. When they came to town, they raised the bar for arrogant service. I'd drive 10 or 15 miles more to go to other stores just because I hated going to Ace.

Within normal driving distance from my house are two Sam Ashes and two GC's. In between them, there are a lot of mom and pop music stores that have managed to thrive. Some have been there since the beginning of time. How did they do it? Like Brad said...they found niches to exploit that GC and Sam Ash weren't. Those who tried to compete with mega buying power directly went by the wayside. But Bass Central did it by specializing in high end bass gear nobody else carried and was a real pioneer in selling MI gear over the net. Dr. Music, a little mom and pop nobody ever heard of, specializes in getting beginners started with everything they need and gives lessons and does little workgroups. It can be done, and if it wasn't GC being a major player, it would be someone else. That's progress.

I mean, we have different definitions of progress, I'm more of the opinion that is us not caring about our main streets, but I don't agree. I think there will be some major shifts in how some companies do business after all this, and I don't see why the music industry couldn't be one of them. People were certain Sears would outlive all of us too. Never say never. Also, I'd happily enjoy the 5 years before someone else became the new Walmart of music if that is truly inevitable, which I don't totally agree that it is. No reason those couldn't be some good times.

 

[Xjenrbcjsmsbfjw]

Your mistake is in thinking I'm trying to convince you of anything. I know better. I'm speaking from my experience, which while being fairly broad is not universal. BTW I'm not aware of how to make narrow generalizations.

I offered up a counterpoint to what I quoted. I've been shopping since the seventies and mom & pops tended to run their tried and true model into the ground. Charge what you want, carry what you want, no vision, no outside of the box thinking. In short take it or leave it. Even the larger M&Ps did the same. There were plenty of other things to sell when the big box stores showed up. Like service. And I think many folks also seem to forget that being a big box is no lock on of success. MARS Music anyone? Or the pathetic attempt Best Buy made a few years back. There are ways to work smart and I saw most of the M&Ps in this area fail to do that.

One of my favorite small stores, where I bought my first Tobias, was initially run by a nice guy with serious issues. Towards the end he had his son work in the store, who despite the stor being almost empty (as usual) would ask customers playing at low volume if they could turn down... he was trying to shoot the breeze with his girlfriend. That's the mom & pop people don't want to remember. Or the store in Fall Church where they wouldn't wait on you and when you asked for someone they'd ask "are you going to buy it?"

Good times.

BTW if GC goes, guess what will replace it? Most likely. nothing. How is a new brick and mortar going to compete with cutthtroat pricing, one day free shipping and long return periods?

You're absolutely trying to make a case for something, whether you want to call that 'convincing,' is your call. Every word there is just more opinions that we disagree on. We're at an impasse here. You don't know better, and neither do I.

Edit: the 'rose colored glasses' shtick is just plain condescending, along with the 'I know better.' Nothing 'rose colored,' about it. Those places were good to me, I don't know why they weren't to you.

 

[JimmyM]

I mean, we have different definitions of progress, I'm more of the opinion that is us not caring about our main streets, but I don't agree. I think there will be some major shifts in how some companies do business after all this, and I don't see why the music industry couldn't be one of them. People were certain Sears would outlive all of us too. Never say never. Also, I'd happily enjoy the 5 years before someone else became the new Walmart of music if that is truly inevitable, which I don't totally agree that it is. No reason those couldn't be some good times.

Well you may be right. But no business deserves my support simply because it exists a few miles from my house. They have to give me a reason to shop there. And if a mom and pop gives me a reason to shop there, I will shop there.

 

[mikewalker]

GC used department recently got me a nice score of some usually-expensive unobtainium, but I had to set up an account with a USA VPN to pretend that my web browser was ordering from inside USA, and then had to ship it to a freight-forwarding company in Florida.

Aside from odd rarities like that, I almost always buy from Sweetwater if I have to mail order something. I used to use them when I was building studios in the 199Os because they were just about the only place who would ship to Canada. And I am still impressed with their service - last week I ordered a few odds and ends that were not available anywhere in the supply network up here, they shipped the same day and it all arrived here ahead of schedule three days later.

Honorable Mention: When I am out and about in the USA I generally favor Sam Ash - another very fine outfit in my books!

 

[Blueinred]

I bought my Sterling bass from Dave @ Monkton last week-- gave me a great deal.

It should be here on Tuesday-- can't wait!

The Sterlings are getting a lot of love by some on TB. I'd like to see some of the smaller local shops have another go at it. They can still have a presence online via Reverb or ebay. I always enjoyed the local dealers.

 

[Ellery]

One M&P around here I'd like to see crumble is Fullerton Music. They follow you around like you're going to steal something and when you have a question they challenge your intent to buy. I would get bad service, not return for a few years, forget, come back, get rude service again. The owner clearly has a target market and if your appearance doesn't fall into that class of people, they chase you out. If they don't like people with long hair and heavy metal tshirts, they shouldn't carry electric guitars and distortion pedals. Duh! (photo of their guitar & bass section):

No noodling

• Ellery
• Jul 4, 2017
• slap bass

Of course this sign was placed over by the BASSES and away from the guitars! Perhaps they were...