The guitarist, especially the NEW guitarist, needs to stay in his lane and work on his own sound which is sorely lacking.
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Guitar player thinks my tone is thin - is it?
- Thread starter Elmstreet
- Start date
IMHO, You're being extremely generous with this estimate.
I don't know, it seems to me it takes some arrogance and ego to be a new member in a band and proceed to critique other members tone.
I do have a gig and I know I'm more of an expert than anyone else about how I like MY tone.
Most acousticians don't know what's going on with acoustics!
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Re. the tone, it's possible that from where the guitarist is standing, it sounds thin, and also that from where you're standing it sound great. Both things can be true simultaneously. Furthermore, one person's "too much" low end, might be another's "too thin". There's no such thing as "perfect" tone. Then there's the whole discussion of what their definition of "low end" is. Is it sub-bass? Is it 100Hz?
Best thing you can do is try to work together to achieve something you both agree is good. And hopefully, that fosters the kind of ego-free collaborative relationship where the whole is greater than the sum of its parts.
As far as the video goes, sounds all seem fine. But the performance on the 3EB song is messy. Why so fast? Why is the drummer swinging so much? Get that locked in, and you'll worry a lot less about tone.
Best thing you can do is try to work together to achieve something you both agree is good. And hopefully, that fosters the kind of ego-free collaborative relationship where the whole is greater than the sum of its parts.
As far as the video goes, sounds all seem fine. But the performance on the 3EB song is messy. Why so fast? Why is the drummer swinging so much? Get that locked in, and you'll worry a lot less about tone.
Some degree of respect should be given to veteran group members as well. If the bassist thinks his sound is great and the guitarist thinks it sucks, who is right? The answer may be neither because tone is subjective. The OP suggests the bassist, audio tech, and rest of the band think the tone of the bass is fine. Why do you think the guitar player is the only one who has a clue.
I think the guitar player should get some say. However getting a sound on stage should be a negotiation between all members. If guitar ask for the bassist to bump the low end, reasonable concession can be given. However, consideration should be given to how the change impacts other band members and how it impacts house sound. If there is a disagreements, the group leader normally gets the final say. I would suggest the group leader consult with the audio tech on this particular matter, as having massive lows bleeding of the stage is a pretty reliable recipe for bad house sound.
If the guitar player is being judgy and acting like his opinion carries more weight than the everyone else, he probably needs to be checked. Of course, one might consider how rare and valuable the guitarist's skillset is. Sometimes the situation warrants giving someone who can who really bring "it" a bit more latitude, regardless of whether they or correct or being rationale. Sometimes the price of dealing with super talented artists is accepting a narcissistic attitude and offensive behavior. I don't necessarily like it, but it is sometimes a valid choice IME.
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I believe that in the context of an ensemble, bass is ALL about understanding the interplay of multiple instruments, and the importance of serving the music. Subsequently, good bassists typically are accommodating, and it's the ones who aren't especially good who usually have some chip on their shoulder.
What is disrespectful? The OP said the quote was:
His quote was something like this "Hey man, I feel like your tone could use a bit more low end, it's sounding a little bit thin"
There are dozens of posts here with people acting like the dude called OP's baby ugly. What he said is perfectly reasonable and exactly the kind of feedback you should want to get from the people you perform with. I bet if you went through post history of the very upset people in this thread who are outraged the guitarist gave some feedback, you'd find all of them advocated strongly in other threads that it's totally fine to scream at the guitarist to turn the hell down if he's too loud.
Arrogance is thinking you are the most important person on the stage and no one else has a valid perspective. You aren't performing solo, you're a support instrument filling a role within an ensemble. Your pet settings might not be right for a given gig, room, instrumentation, or song. And if you are so freaking arrogant that you cannot accept any feedback without turning into a child then you have way bigger issues than rolling off your high end.
And if you act so defensive about a very gentle a friendly suggestion then no, you are not going to get a lot of people giving you feedback. You are going to have a lot of people talking behind your back about what an arrogant, sensitive jerk you are. But hey, at least you get to keep YOUR tone how you like it. Until they find a replacement who is able to communicate like an adult.
I get and agree with all of that, however, if we're both standing out front during a sound check and I think I sound great in the mix and the guitarist wants to alter my tone, he can pound sand.
It's all opinions here. I don't EVER want to be over powering the mix, nor do I want to be inaudible. In a band ALL should be accommodating to a point, not just bassists, right?
Seems you need to calm down a bit.
I don't think I'm the most important player on stage at all.
Maybe the one hurling insults here is the one turning into a child....
Relax, Jonathan.
And if you're standing out front during sound check, and you feel that the guitarist's tone has too much low end to the point of obscuring what the bass is doing, you don't think you should be able to say anything to the guitarist? And if not, what is your solution? Just to turn up your bass? Or maybe ignore it and let the sound be not as good as it could be?
I think it's important to remember that in an ensemble, no player or sound exists in a vacuum. Everything you do affects everyone else, and vice versa. The best solution is to lose the ego and work together.
That is a fair point, and I agree.
However, the argument always seems to skew towards the "supportive" instruments needing to bend towards what the rest of the ensemble desires.
I agree that ALL should be able to discuss as adults the overall sound of the band, regrettably 6 string ego's are often times present...
I have a certain sound I like to project and I do my damnedest to achieve it while trying to have our band sound the best it can with nobody being stomped on.
See, the fun thing about guitarists is that they THINK they're the most important instrument, but in the world of popular music for the last half-century, it's all about the vocal, kick/snare, and bass. In that order. Everything else is supportive.
Anyone that wasn't at that show has no clue what the bass sounded like, not anyone defending it nor critiquing it! With that said! this is obviously not this man's first gig! I personally find it hard to believe that a P Bass and Mesa/Boogie were too "Thin"!
I don't have a problem with this comment other than it's subjective. It represents what the guitarist thinks bass should sound like, which may be in conflict with what I think bass should sound like. Again, there is not necessarily a right and wrong answer here...we are both entitled to our opinions. Also there is no guarantee that we both are hearing exactly the same tone.
Whether I would make the requested adjustment or not, would depend on the situation and the history/relationship I have with the guitarist.
My priorities:
- Keeping the band leader happy
- What the audience hears
- My playing needs
- Overall stage balance for the entire band
- Desires of individual musicians
IME it's rare for anyone to get perfect sound on stage, but some are willing to take more than their fair share. If the guitar player is willing to negotiate and make reciprocal changes to better meet my needs, I tend to be willing to strike mutually beneficial compromises. If the guitarist always takes/never gives, it's another matter.
