Guitar Players with harsh tone!

[51PRI]

You guys who say "Tell him to do this or that"...

have you ever encountered a guitarist who took such suggestions about tone, volume, amp placement, etc?

Exactly right.

You’ve got to wonder what exactly is being “warmed up”? Sounds all kinds of bad.

It DOES sound bad, and unprofessional, too, IMO.

What do you mean by harsh? Thin, in a band context, can be better than a fat tone that obscures the bass.

Just hurts the ears. Bright. Unpleasing.

Agree, they should try monitoring themselves in the direct beam.
Not do - just try a single time, to let you guys have an informed discussion on the output from the amp.
The next excuse could be that i sounds harsh, and they don’t like the sound of the direct beam.
If they don’t understand the problem then, I don’t think there’s much you can do.
Of course, you yourself should also be prepared to work with the eq and direction of your own amp.

Yeah, they won't point their amps at their heads. I've suggested that.

Let me guess, he plays a Tele?

One of them does, sometimes, but he switches around. The other guy usually uses a Gibson.

Yep. Once I started using this:

[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

with a 410 pointed at my head, I began getting requests to turn up. But to me it sounded loud already. Not to mention "better" too.

They both have those but don't/won't use them.
One of them has a wireless rig and goes outfront at nearly every show so I have to assume that he likes what he's hearing out there.

 

[Marko 1]

You guys who say "Tell him to do this or that"...

have you ever encountered a guitarist who took such suggestions about tone, volume, amp placement, etc?

Actually I'm lucky, my present guitarist did... not a loud player or a wanker, and we're not hard-rockers...

but I suggested that he put his amp to the side tilted up towards his head, and only as much volume as he felt he needed,

I mic it of course, and put plenty of guitar in the monitors.

He's happy to do so.

Maybe as the PA guy I have a bit more sway than just another player.

 

[Ostie]

Nothing says “professional” like twenty minutes of loud noodling before a gig.

 

[Gluvhand]

Man… somehow you consistently seem to keep doin gigs with people who always seem to have issues.

Are you that hard on for playin in front of people regardless of who you’re playin with?

At some point you'd think he'd become self-aware enough to say "maybe it's me?".

 

[ole Jason]

I know that guitar tone is a very subjective thing but the guitar players in the band I'm in both have different, but equally harsh tone, IMO. When they're warming up before a gig it actually hurts my ears. And one of them warms up a BUNCH at full, or nearly full, volume. And they both have good, top notch equipment, so I know that equipment isn't the problem, and that the sound they're getting is the sound they WANT to get.

I play guitar, too, and I like a pleasing, warm, round tone when I play, not a harsh and stinging tone.

What kind of earplugs are best?

How does it sound in the mix? People are often surprised how 'weird' isolated guitar tones are on their favorite albums.

 

[ChrisB2]

You guys who say "Tell him to do this or that"...

have you ever encountered a guitarist who took such suggestions about tone, volume, amp placement, etc?

I get you, but ... and I've referenced this guy before as someone who turned down when I asked him to ... yes, this one guy was responsive to my requests, including elevating his amp. Note I said "ONE" guy...

 

[drumvsbass]

So, what sounds horrendous to me from the stage standing next to a loud guitar amp might sound great out front.

This is an unfortunate truth. What sounds good on stage standing right next to your amp might not sound great 10 or 15 feet from your amp. Bassists suffer from this type of thing but in the other direction. Sounds big and full onstage, yet in the room it is a mud slinging gorilla. Sounding great in the room will often leave us with an uninspiring anemic twang fest onstage. This is the curse of the bedroom tone, and often times the 12o'clock tone.

The cure, Mids.

 

[Pings Bass]

Iso box or amp sim and in-ears is the only way I can deal with guitar players anymore.

 

[Marko 1]

I posted this before:

An old bass player once said “There's a special place in hell for whoever decided that electric guitar should be a lead instrument”.

A bit over the top...

but I was pretty upset at the time.

 

[pbass2]

Nothing says “professional” like twenty minutes of loud noodling before a gig.

Heck, you need around 30 seconds for guitar for soundcheck, then it starts getting into amateur hour.

 

[Markmann]

How does it sound in the mix? People are often surprised how 'weird' isolated guitar tones are on their favorite albums.

Exactly. Guitarists generally dial out low and low mids to eliminate mud in the mix. Sounds bad alone but works great with the band.

 

[themickster]

I know that guitar tone is a very subjective thing but the guitar players in the band I'm in both have different, but equally harsh tone, IMO. When they're warming up before a gig it actually hurts my ears. And one of them warms up a BUNCH at full, or nearly full, volume. And they both have good, top notch equipment, so I know that equipment isn't the problem, and that the sound they're getting is the sound they WANT to get.

I play guitar, too, and I like a pleasing, warm, round tone when I play, not a harsh and stinging tone.

What kind of earplugs are best?

Guitarists think that they're entitled to the sound they want and have everyone else fit in with it. They unaware that an awesome sound at home is shaped by the room and by playing alone. Another room and other players change the tones. Even the same room, new players will change the sound.

Do they need to play that loud, to be heard above a drum kit that only works when the drummer hits it as hard as he can. I've been shouted at for asking a drummer to play quieter. It was only a jam. We told him not to come back.

 

[Texican]

Your streak of putting non Band Management posts in Band Management is impressive. I'll give you that. Otherwise, meh.

The tone of your reply really gave me perspective on these guitar players. Maybe they don’t realize that their tone comes across as harsh and unnecessary for the overall mix… much like your reply. Maybe these guitarists actually think they are adding or creating something meaningful and worthwhile. Or maybe they think that the sonic space belongs to them and them alone… kind of like when someone thinks a discussion forum should be reduced to only topics that they are interested in. Yes, people can be harsh and irritating without realizing it, whether they are playing guitar, or posting online.

 

[lokikallas]

When you go deaf the harshest frequencies are usually the first to go, so to them it sounds fine.

 

[Low End Scum]

You guys who say "Tell him to do this or that"...

have you ever encountered a guitarist who took such suggestions about tone, volume, amp placement, etc?

Lol fair point. One of my guitarists in a past band was always fighting the sound guy.

"Turn your amp down" and he'd go barely do it, or just touch the volume knob. If he did bother to actually turn it down, he'd turn it back up right as we started playing

 

[Marko 1]

Lol fair point. One of my guitarists in a past band was always fighting the sound guy.

"Turn your amp down" and he'd go barely do it, or just touch the volume knob. Of he did bother to actually turn it down, he'd turn it back up right as we started playing

One guy I played with (never again) occasionally would genuinely turn his rig down because of complaints...

immediately followed by breaking a string.

 

[pepj]

I'm assuming these aren't exactly young guys.

You have two choices; educate them once and
for all because they seem to keep missing basics like this/just dont get it.
Or educate them by letting them go.

There is more to being good than playing decent notes...way more.

 

[gln1955]

One of them has a wireless rig and goes outfront at nearly every show so I have to assume that he likes what he's hearing out there.

Then they aren't going to change. Maybe it does in fact sound good out front and there's not really a problem. What do people in your audiences say about your sound?

 

[Marko 1]

Then they aren't going to change. Maybe it does in fact sound good out front and there's not really a problem. What do people in your audiences say about your sound?

I suppose if there are no complaints there, and they get repeat gigs...

can't say too much.

 

[pepj]

People tell you if the sound is good.
They don't tell you if its rubbish but then I'd be surprised you'd need to be told that anyway.

Get the core sounds sounding very good, then its just a question of balance. It should be simple self mixing backline.
What the soundman and P.A does is for the other thread but if they are any good no problem there either. imv.