• TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
    Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
    Join free Log in
    Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.

Guitar Scale Acoustic Basses

#201
SBassman said:
The strings are the same design as the stock strings. Only differences are phosphor bronze - boo vs nickel - yay, and small differences in gauge.
Click to expand...
Well, that, and the core material. D'Addario literature consistently calls the core in the [This invalid link has been removed] set (which the Ibanez wears as per your OP) an unspecified "multifilament" one, but Taylor Guitars, who co-developed the set, describe it as "a soft and flexible stranded nylon core":
Invalid Link Removed
OTOH the Invalid Link Removed are the coated version* of the [This invalid link has been removed] - basically your garden-variety nickel-plated steel-core roundwound strings for electric bass guitar.
Speaking of which, how is intonation with the new strings?

*EDIT: OK, to be fair, tension figures show they're not the exact same string.
 
Last edited:
#202
HaphAsSard said:
Well, that, and the core material. D'Addario literature consistently calls the core in the EXPPBB190GS set (which the Ibanez wears as per your OP) an unspecified "multifilament" one, but Taylor Guitars, who co-developed the set, describe it as "a soft and flexible stranded nylon core":
Invalid Link Removed
OTOH the Invalid Link Removed are the coated version of the [This invalid link has been removed] - basically your garden-variety nickel-plated steel-core roundwound strings for electric bass guitar.
Speaking of which, how is intonation with the new strings?
Click to expand...

It's entirely possible I'm getting it wrong. But - the strings went on the instrument fine, and the intonation is fine.
 
#203
I bought this from Sweetwater music, $229.00. done a little adjustment took maybe 5 minutes , and played it at a small gig with my Ampeg 10v2, worked great deep sound almost like a standup, and I played it at church through a SWR 350 head an 410 awesome. Its a keeper and fun takes a little while to get use to, has its own electronics which includes a tuner. Pretty cool. I figured If i didn't like it i would give to a kid at church but like i said its a keeper.
KUBWNDRFS-P.fpx.jpeg
 
#204
SBassman said:
It's entirely possible I'm getting it wrong. But - the strings went on the instrument fine, and the intonation is fine.
Click to expand...

D'Addario shows those strings as having almost 3 times the tension as the originals, but that's when they're strung on a 34" scale bass.

Did they make any noticeable difference in your neck relief?

Ibanez hasn't answered (or acknowledged) my request about using the LaBella flats yet.
 
#206
macmanlou said:
D'Addario shows those strings as having almost 3 times the tension as the originals, but that's when they're strung on a 34" scale bass.

Did they make any noticeable difference in your neck relief?

Ibanez hasn't answered (or acknowledged) my request about using the LaBella flats yet.
Click to expand...

ibanez has been very good at responding to me within 1 business day for the last year. i'm pming you the email address i use to get hold of them.
 
  • Like
Reactions: macmanlou
#207
macmanlou said:
D'Addario shows those strings as having almost 3 times the tension as the originals, but that's when they're strung on a 34" scale bass.

Did they make any noticeable difference in your neck relief?

Ibanez hasn't answered (or acknowledged) my request about using the LaBella flats yet.
Click to expand...

Well, looking at those numbers - I guess it is safe to say that the EXP220's I just put on are Not the same design as the stocks, with nickel instead of phosphor bronze.

Makes me ask questions I wish someone in the know at Ibanez and DAddario could answer for us.

The Whole challenge with short scale basses in history is the fact that the shorter scale creates an enormous challenge as far as having enough tension for stability. Why, then, would they design strings with Less tension for these small scale instruments? It's not making sense to me.

I agree this would be a big problem with an instrument without a truss rod. But these days, most instruments do have truss rods and are built to withstand some pressure. Ibanez and many manufacturers build regular scale acoustic basses that have way more tension on them than what I am doing. I have to believe they don't intentionally make these particular bass designs Less able to take tension, making the assumption the owner is not going to put strings on with higher tension.

But, I Am speculating and guessing. I can't state any of this as factual.

I'll be the guinea pig. :) I'm keeping the strings on. They feel good and sound good - way better than the stocks, for me personally.

If I wake up one day and I have a pile of wood instead of a working bass, I will report that here. :)

... Takin one for the team :) ...
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: macmanlou
#208
I believe a large factor involved with getting decent volume out of these small instruments is a thin top! Compare a 34" scale ABG to one of these micro acoustic basses. Big difference in terms of structural rigidity. I bet that's where the move towards lower tension comes from. The issue isn't the neck warping, but the top (soundboard) deflecting.
 
#209
macmanlou said:
D'Addario shows those strings as having almost 3 times the tension as the originals, but that's when they're strung on a 34" scale bass.

Did they make any noticeable difference in your neck relief?
Click to expand...
SBassman said:
If I wake up one day and I have a pile of wood instead of a working bass, I will report that here. :)
Click to expand...
I hope and have a reasonable expectation that it won't be the case.

You can calculate the tension of a string for a specific scale - pitch being equal and provided you know the string's tension at another, given scale - by multiplying the known tension value by the ratio of scale lengths squared.

[597mm is the scale length of the Taylor, and the one which D'Addario used to calculate the tensions they provide for the phosphor bronze nylon-core [This invalid link has been removed] set; 628mm is the scale of the Ibanez PNB14E; 863.6mm is bass guitar standard (long) scale, which all L-S bass set tensions provided by D'Addario are measured at, including the Invalid Link Removed.]

(628/597=1.0519262981574539363484087102178)^2=1.1065489367552446767618101675322
Multiplying the EXPPBB190GS tensions by the above ratio, and rounding the results somewhat, we get
G 12.172lbs
D 14.263lbs
A 13.146lbs
E 15.923lbs
=55.504lbs total. These are the tensions of the Ibanez PNB14E basslet in its stock stringage.

(628/863.6=0.72718851320055581287633163501621)^2=0.52880313373083493571831434320308
Doing the same operation to the EXP220 tension values, we convert them to the target 24.724" scale of the Ibby:
G 17.821lbs
D 22.686lbs
A 20.095lbs
E 18.191lbs
=78.863lbs total. This is how much the nickel-plated set pulls on the Ibanez.

The increase is significant, but still less than 50% (the nickel-on-steel E in particular is not all that tighter than the nylon-core it replaced).
More importantly, the total tension of the set is what you'd get by putting a .009-.042 electric guitar set on a 3/4 guitar. Wet noodles, that is.
Is it quite a bit more than the stock set? Well, yeah, 23-odd pounds more. Is the instrument so underglued, underbraced, underwooden, underrodded that it will fold under that tension?
scotch said:
I believe a large factor involved with getting decent volume out of these small instruments is a thin top! Compare a 34" scale ABG to one of these micro acoustic basses. Big difference in terms of structural rigidity. I bet that's where the move towards lower tension comes from. The issue isn't the neck warping, but the top (soundboard) deflecting.
Click to expand...
I agree that the neck will be fine since it has a truss rod, and the thing to watch for is the bridge and the top area around it. (The Ibby may be a little more robust than the Aquila ShortBassONE, hopefully.)
However, in my opinion the main reason why this new class of instruments comes with nylon-core strings is that they're flexible and less prone to inharmonicity at the relevant scale than steel-cores, while being in the same general ballpark tone-wise and not terribly quieter; the ukulele-bass market, OTOH, has proven that a number of players were willing to compromise on playing feel (read as: give up on the tension they were used to) for portability (and part of them, those that buy Pyramid and Kala roundwounds, were not necessarily after double-bassy tones).
JMO.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Pupalei
#210
HaphAsSard said:
...the thing to watch for is the bridge and the top area around it.
Click to expand...

Exactly. And that's why I've asked Ibanez for their opinion with regard to using the LaBella/Microbass stainless steel flatwounds on their fretless. Depending on their answer, I may opt out and go for the new [Invalid or Expired Link Removed]. There's plenty of flatwounds that can work on that.
 
Last edited:
#216
Don M said:
kohanmike....you use ME Bass flats on those smallguitar basses correct? Don't they also have a 24.75" scale? Do you think the difference between 19 and 20 frets would be an issue for intonation?
Click to expand...
I'm not too critical about intonation, if it's close, I'm fine. My SmallGuitars 1/2 size 24.7" mini P-bass is pretty good, it and my other magnetic pickups all have good bridge adjustments, so intonation can be dialed in. I also use the flats on a couple of my Rondo Hadean solid body bass ukes, which have some bridge adjustment.
 
Last edited:
#217
i'm going to ask my husband to head over to this thread. i had some long scale strings i wanted on a mikro, so he's cutting off the ball ends, unraveling part of the winds, cutting them and the core wire, replacing the ball ends by weaving the wrap through it. our first string is still working and he's doing another, so perhaps he can explain what he's doing better. maybe someone here has tried it.
 
  • Like
Reactions: SBassman
#218
so basically some mandolin and banjo players need loop end strings and there are some tools out here to do this for them like the John Pearse String Wizard. taking that a step further, i though that i could make a loop ended string but put a ball end back in it.

i'm going to have to break this into two parts because people at work seem to need me right now.

Part 1

1) determine the wrap length you want:
for the Mikro i'll lay on a string on the neck and set it with the end of wrap about 1/8" away from the nut (towards the tuners). stretch it out to the absolute end of the bridge (typical sheet metal plate bridge) and mark that spot on the string with a Sharpie. This is you basic wrap length. You can place the end of wrap closer to the tuners if you want -say an inch away from each, that will work fine also.

2) cut your string:
from that Sharpie mark you made earlier, make another mark approx 1/2" to 5/8" toward the tuner side of the string. this is the amount of wrap wire you'll actually be un-winding and then re-winding back onto the core wire. now, from the furthermost mark you made earlier when you set your wrap length at the bridge, place another mark with the Sharpie approx. 1" to 1-1/2" towards the ball end. this is where you'll cut the string. take your wire cutters and cut.

3) recycle the ball end:
you need good high quality cutters for this work, ones that cut right to the tip and are sharp and small. i have some Lindstrom's. Klien, Utica, and Exacta are some other brands that are suitable. grab your offcut of string and nip the core wire off the ball end. cut it on both sides and the ferrule will just drop right out.

4) start unwrapping:
on your trebles you'll have a core wire and one layer of outer wrap wire. on your basses, you'll have a core, an inner wrap and an outer wrap. for starting out i suggest working with the trebles first. you're gonna need magnification and light. i have one of those magnafying lamps and a Vision Visor that i'll switch back and forth between. get your string and your wire cutters and using the cutters, close them down on the string right in-between a wrap of wire. just enough to part the wrap open so you can grab hold of it. pick up the loose end with a pair of needle nose pliers (again quality tools count here. jewelry or bead making pliers are a good choice) and unwind enough to get a hold of with your fingers. you can strip this off fairly quickly until you get close to your sharpie marks you made earlier. when you get close to this point you want to actually un-wrap the outer wire from the core by rotating it off of the wire rather then pulling it. don't kink the wire and don't try to straighten it unreasonably.

part two in a little bit.
 
Last edited:
#220
Arie X said:
so basically some mandolin and banjo players need loop end strings and there are some tools out here to do this for them like the John Pearse String Wizard. taking that a step further, i though that i could make a loop ended string but put a ball end back in it.

i'm going to have to break this into two parts because people at work seem to need me right now.

Part 1

1) determine the wrap length you want:
for the Mikro i'll lay on a string on the neck and set it with the end of wrap about 1/8" away from the nut (towards the tuners). stretch it out to the absolute end of the bridge (typical sheet metal plate bridge) and mark that spot on the string with a Sharpie. This is you basic wrap length. You can place the end of wrap closer to the tuners if you want -say an inch away from each, that will work fine also.

2) cut your string:
from that Sharpie mark you made earlier, make another mark approx 1/2" to 5/8" toward the tuner side of the string. this is the amount of wrap wire you'll actually be un-winding and then re-winding back onto the core wire. now, from the furthermost mark you made earlier when you set your wrap length at the bridge, place another mark with the Sharpie approx. 1" to 1-1/2" towards the ball end. this is where you'll cut the string. take your wire cutters and cut.

3) recycle the ball end:
you need good high quality cutters for this work, ones that cut right to the tip and are sharp and small. i have some Lindstrom's. Klien, Utica, and Exacta are some other brands that are suitable. grab your offcut of string and nip the core wire off the ball end. cut it on both sides and the ferrule will just drop right out.

4) start unwrapping:
on your trebles you'll have a core wire and one layer of outer wrap wire. on your basses, you'll have a core, an inner wrap and and outer wrap. for starting out i suggest working with the trebles first. you're gonna need magnification and light. i have one of those magnafying lamps and a Vision Visor that i'll switch back and forth between. get your string and your wire cutters and using the cutters, close them down on the string right in-between a wrap of wire. just enough to part the wrap open so you can grab hold of it. pick up the loose end with a pair of needle nose pliers (again quality tools count here. jewelry or bead making pliers are a good choice) and unwind enough to get a hold of with your fingers. you can strip this off fairly quickly until you get close to your sharpie marks you made earlier. when you get close to this point you want to actually un-wrap the outer wire from the core by rotating it off of the wire rather then pulling it. don't kink the wire and don't try to straighten it unreasonably.

part two in a little bit.
Click to expand...

thanks, honey :)

tymbrewolf said:
Video needed
Click to expand...

i'll try and shoot a video when he does the last string for the mikro or set up a stationary camera at least.
 

Latest posts

Top Bottom
Back