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Guitar Scale Acoustic Basses

#1,621
All good points, and I agree. It's just that I am disappointed again. Having so little spare time between job and my family, a possibility having to spend another few hours trying to fix it myself and taking it to a tech is a cause enough for me to rant.
Following your advice, I talked to a friend who is a very good guitar tech and he said that this is fixable. Tomorrow I'll bring him the bass and, fingers crossed, I'll have a working bass on Monday.
 
#1,622
It's going back unfortunately. Uneven string volume could probably be fixed. The fret buzz is fixable as well, but the frets are so skinny that this would be the last fret leveling - this alone is enough for me to send it back.
But the worst part, and this could be normal for this model, but a big problem for acoustic guitar in general, is bad neck angle - it's basically the same thing as the Ovation on the this link. So rather than trying to make it fully functional, I'll return it and try my luck with something else.
measuring-neck-set-angle-guitar-marting-ovation-straightedge.jpg
 
#1,623
goran said:
It's going back unfortunately. Uneven string volume could probably be fixed. The fret buzz is fixable as well, but the frets are so skinny that this would be the last fret leveling - this alone is enough for me to send it back.
But the worst part, and this could be normal for this model, but a big problem for acoustic guitar in general, is bad neck angle - it's basically the same thing as the Ovation on the this link. So rather than trying to make it fully functional, I'll return it and try my luck with something else.
View attachment 4620470
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Woah!

That is definitely not a simple (or acceptable) setup issue...

I'm sorry that you've had such a bad run of luck so far.

Look at the bright side- you've already had more than your share of sub-par models. Hopefully the next one will be a treat, whatever you choose!
 
#1,624
steve_rolfeca said:
Look at the bright side- you've already had more than your share of sub-par models. Hopefully the next one will be a treat, whatever you choose!
Click to expand...

Yes, what are the chances getting a dud three times in a row? :) The irony is that the only options left available to me are the budget instruments as AVN isn't manufactured anymore, and Guild won't be available for some time.
I think I'll ty my luck with Ibanez PNB next.
 
#1,625
I received Ibanez PNB (B-stock) and Harley Benton Traveler bass from Thomann yesterday and they both exceeded all my expectations.

Harley Benton is a really well crafted instrument - there is no fret buzz, the finish is gorgeous, tuners work really well. It is quieter than Ibanez, but sounds more refined with less mids. Honestly, compared to Guild Junior Westerly that I sent back last week, Harley Benton is simply a better built instrument. The only thing where it doesn't really compare to Guild is electric sound, but even in that regard it surpasses my expectations. I even like the tuners more because they have lower ratio.
200€ for instrument with solid top? - a bargain!!!!

Ibanez PNB that I received has a minor problem with the fret buzz, but it is not a big deal. It is louder, and doesn't sound "refined" compared to HB (I guess because of laminated top). It is more raw, but in a good sense. I like the longer scale more. Plugged in, it again doesn't sound as good as Guild or Ibanez AVN, but the tone is usable.

The interesting thing is that, although string volume is again unbalanced on both instruments, it's not nearly as bad as it was on Guild and Ibanez AVN (both costing more than double the price of these two cheap 200€ basses). The difference between loudest and quietest strings is within 3dB on both basses.

Now, I have two weeks to decide which one to keep. They both have their pros and cons.
I like the Ibanez because of the longer scale, fuller sound unplugged, but I am not a fan of the finish.
Harley Benton looks better, it is built better and feels better in hand, but I am not the fan of the scale and string spacing.

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#1,627
And I decided that I'm keeping the Harley Benton Traveler Bass. It's nicer instrument than Ibanez PNB, with less flaws, and I prefer how it sounds. I'm glad this is finally over and I have a usable instrument, but I wish I had more luck because I'm sure I would love the Ibanez AVN the best if it had even string volume.

Ok, so this is how I rank the instruments that I had in my hands, based on the problems that I've had, from least problems to most:
  1. Harley Benton Traveler bass - uneven string volume (slightly quieter A string).
  2. Ibanez PNB - fret buzz and uneven string volume, but not extreme as the last two.
  3. Ibanez AVN - uneven string volume, making it totally unusable when amplified.
  4. Guild Junior Westerly - fret buzz, bad neck angle, uneven string volume.

If all instruments were without any problems, the list would be different:
  1. Ibanez AVN - loudest unplugged, very nice and even sound. Nice tension because of the longer scale. Very nice sound amplified. Has tuner.
  2. Guild Junior Westerly - even sounding across the neck, nice sweet tone, but not as full as Ibanez AVN. Sounds nice amplified, but I prefer the Ibanez AVN. Definitely the prettiest out of 4. No tuner.
  3. Harley Benton - the bargain!!! Honestly, if you're not sure what to choose, you can't be wrong with this one. Looks great, sounds great unplugged - not as nice as Ibanez AVN and Guild, but very deep and full sound. Has tuner.
  4. Ibanez PNB - it is an ok bass. The only one out of 4 that has a laminated top, and you can hear it. I like the longer scale, has tuner.
So again, I wish I had more luck with Ibanez AVN1, but since it is out of production it is almost impossible to find, and I'd rather not try my luck again. Harley Benton is the cheapest, and ironically had the least manufacturing flaws.

PS
I'm curious about fretless version of this instrument type, I wish I could try one in person.
 
#1,632
anserg63 said:
I like the sound and playability very much. It has Fishman undersaddle pickup and preamp. I use Galli flatwound strings for 23" scale instead of factory installed D’Addario EXPPBB190GS.
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I can imagine that the D'Addarios must have felt pretty slack on that scale.

I used to have an AVNB1E, which is almost 25". I still found them a little too soft on that, and went to the LaBella CB40-BE's instead.

I really like the LaBellas, despite the tarnish from the silver plating that sometimes turns my fingers black. Just a little more stiffness, and a nice warmth that I really enjoy. Still using them on the Guild...
 
#1,633
steve_rolfeca said:
I can imagine that the D'Addarios must have felt pretty slack on that scale.

I used to have an AVNB1E, which is almost 25". I still found them a little too soft on that, and went to the LaBella CB40-BE's instead.

I really like the LaBellas, despite the tarnish from the silver plating that sometimes turns my fingers black. Just a little more stiffness, and a nice warmth that I really enjoy. Still using them on the Guild...
Click to expand...
I was going to order LaBella CB40-BE for my project (solid cedar top 25" dreadnaught into bass ) but its impossible now in case of some reason ( western sanctions because of Ukrainian crisis). I discovered Gold Tone Flatwounds MBLS for Microbass ( made by Labella though) are great.
 
#1,634
I have read through most of the 82 pages in this group and had no idea this type of bass was so common!

I have owned the Ibanez PNB for about two years now, purchased primarily for its looks when asked to play at an acoustic gig. I had no idea how to amplify it and ran it through one of my electric bass amps with mixed results. It got put aside after that and ended up at our vacation house for practice.

Then I got a call to fill in while I was at that house and, with no other choice, threw it in the car with a cable and went to the gig. Plugged it directly into the control unit for a Bose L1 PA and, well, it sounded great. I had played it enough for the strings to lose some of their brittle top end and had figured out how to modulate different sounds with my right hand position. It took a while to get used to round wounds after playing flats for years, but it was doable.

I can get a cut-through JBass tone by plucking near the bridge, or a softer sound with thumb and fingers further up. String volume is even, intonation is good. In a 2-man duo, dining area gig it looks like another guitar: sort of a stealth bass. (This helps when managers are worried you will be too loud!)

As many have commented, its construction is solid enough but looks cheap compared to the spruce top, fancier trimmed Guild and Taylor. I put a laser-cut baffle in it and it looks like a vintage guitar. I like that it is parlor sized. I can comfortably play it standing or sitting.

One question: has anyone pulled the frets on one of these? It seems like it would be a cool little fretless.
IMG_3280.jpg
 
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#1,635
JohnMalay said:
I have read through most of the 82 pages in this group and had no idea this type of bass was so common!

I have owned the Ibanez PNB for about two years now, purchased primarily for its looks when asked to play at an acoustic gig. I had no idea how to amplify it and ran it through one of my electric bass amps with mixed results. It got put aside after that and ended up at our vacation house for practice.

Then I got a call to fill in while I was at that house and, with no other choice, threw it in the car with a cable and went to the gig. Plugged it directly into the control unit for a Bose L1 PA and, well, it sounded great. I had played it enough for the strings to lose some of their brittle top end and had figured out how to modulate different sounds with my right hand position. It took a while to get used to round wounds after playing flats for years, but it was doable.

I can get a cut-through JBass tone by plucking near the bridge, or a softer sound with thumb and fingers further up. String volume is even, intonation is good. In a 2-man duo, dining area gig it looks like another guitar: sort of a stealth bass. (This helps when managers are worried you will be too loud!)

As many have commented, its construction is solid enough but looks cheap compared to the spruce top, fancier trimmed Guild and Taylor. I put a laser-cut baffle in it and it looks like a vintage guitar. I like that it is parlor sized. I can comfortably play it standing or sitting.

One question: has anyone pulled the frets on one of these? It seems like it would be a cool little fretless.
View attachment 4760491
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There’s an old Ibanez intro video out there for the fretless AVN1BE(F), or whatever they called it.

It sounded amazing in the hands of the person playing it.

Unfortunately, my secret superhero gifting is to make any fretless instrument sound like someone kicking a herd cats down a flight of stairs, so I gave that one a hard pass…
 
#1,636
JohnMalay said:
I have read through most of the 82 pages in this group and had no idea this type of bass was so common!

I have owned the Ibanez PNB for about two years now, purchased primarily for its looks when asked to play at an acoustic gig. I had no idea how to amplify it and ran it through one of my electric bass amps with mixed results. It got put aside after that and ended up at our vacation house for practice.

Then I got a call to fill in while I was at that house and, with no other choice, threw it in the car with a cable and went to the gig. Plugged it directly into the control unit for a Bose L1 PA and, well, it sounded great. I had played it enough for the strings to lose some of their brittle top end and had figured out how to modulate different sounds with my right hand position. It took a while to get used to round wounds after playing flats for years, but it was doable.

I can get a cut-through JBass tone by plucking near the bridge, or a softer sound with thumb and fingers further up. String volume is even, intonation is good. In a 2-man duo, dining area gig it looks like another guitar: sort of a stealth bass. (This helps when managers are worried you will be too loud!)

As many have commented, its construction is solid enough but looks cheap compared to the spruce top, fancier trimmed Guild and Taylor. I put a laser-cut baffle in it and it looks like a vintage guitar. I like that it is parlor sized. I can comfortably play it standing or sitting.

One question: has anyone pulled the frets on one of these? It seems like it would be a cool little fretless.
View attachment 4760491
Click to expand...

There are a lot of fretless versions of these small, Uke, micro, etc. basses. The concept is great, but the scale length requires much greater precision on placement of your finger to press the string to the fingerboard. A very slight error is quite noticeably off pitch at this scale length when it is not noticeable on a longer scale bass. The short scale helps you reach the proper positions, but accuracy is still critical. Singing & playing a fretless in any scale length is challenging, but the challenge is inversely proportional to the scale length; need for accurate noting goes up as the scale length goes down. Try one before you buy one….
 
#1,637
Tim Skaggs said:
There are a lot of fretless versions of these small, Uke, micro, etc. basses. The concept is great, but the scale length requires much greater precision on placement of your finger to press the string to the fingerboard. A very slight error is quite noticeably off pitch at this scale length when it is not noticeable on a longer scale bass. The short scale helps you reach the proper positions, but accuracy is still critical. Singing & playing a fretless in any scale length is challenging, but the challenge is inversely proportional to the scale length; need for accurate noting goes up as the scale length goes down. Try one before you buy one….
Click to expand...

Good point and I agree, but both my fretless basses are home made, i.e. I pulled the frets and sealed the necks. Therefore they have the fret markers where I filled the empty slots with a contrasting wood filler. One is a medium scale and one is a short scale - a TMB30. With the markers I find I can get my intonation right after a brief warm up.

I don't do much singing, maybe back up on a chorus, so not a problem. I recall that Rick Danko of The Band played a fretless Ampeg bass at one point and sang his head off, but he was a rare talent. Jack Bruce switched to a fretless not long after Cream and was a lead vocalist. It can be done!
 
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#1,639
JohnMalay said:
Good point and I agree, but both my fretless basses are home made, i.e. I pulled the frets and sealed the necks. Therefore they have the fret markers where I filled the empty slots with a contrasting wood filler. One is a medium scale and one is a short scale - a TMB30. With the markers I find I can get my intonation right after a brief warm up.

I don't do much singing, maybe back up on a chorus, so not a problem. I recall that Rick Danko of The Band played a fretless Ampeg bass at one point and sang his head off, but he was a rare talent. Jack Bruce switched to a fretless not long after Cream and was a lead vocalist. It can be done!
Click to expand...

If you are talking about your medium scale being a 32” and your short scale being a 30”, you will experience a whole new ball game with a 24.7” scale fretless. It’s not quite as critical as a 21” scale fretless like a Kala UBass, but when you start getting less than 25” scale length on a fretless, just rolling your finger tip slightly will change the pitch. I’ve been playing fretless since the mid 1980s, but when I got my first 21” scale Kala fretless UBass back around 2006, it reset me to a rank beginner and I never really got where I could play on it well enough to suit me. I still play 34” and 30” fretless, but I don’t play anything shorter than 30” fretless. The 24.7” scale might be enough longer that it won’t be near as critical, but I don’t plan to buy one without a lengthy test drive…..
 
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