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Guitarist cant hear themselves

Discussion in 'Live Sound [BG]' started by AdamR, Jun 3, 2014.


  1. AdamR

    AdamR

    Sep 24, 2007
    Bethel CT
    Im looking for suggestions. Every show I hear the same complaint from our guitarists. "I couldnt hear a thing" Im sure the reason is that they both used sealed 412 cabs on such a small stage that they are projecting right past their legs. Also because of the stage size 9 out of 10 times amps end up in front of the drums making timing timing an issue. I use an 810 at almost ever show and having speakers near ear level has helped me a ton. Im not really sure what to do for my guitar players. I did suggest they maybe place their cabs on something to get them a bit higher or maybe look into buying some old Mesa half back cabs but getting them to part with money is not easy.
     
  2. lilcrate

    lilcrate Tortdaddy

    Sep 9, 2013
    St. Louis
    Are they not mic'ing them? Mic+monitor should do the trick...
     
  3. R&B

    R&B Both kinds of music: Rhythm AND Blues! Supporting Member

    Amp height and aiming point is surely a factor as you point out; some elevation or mic/monitor may help. The guitarists' own hearing acuity may be an issue too. Getting them to go for an audiogram is probably near impossible, nevertheless, every gigging musician should have a formal hearing test regularly. (I need to go myself!) And we should all use something like Etymotic earplugs if stage volumes are high. Sometimes when you can't hear...it's because you can't hear.
     
    Honch likes this.
  4. AdamR

    AdamR

    Sep 24, 2007
    Bethel CT
    Micing is not always an option. The last 3 shows we played PA was vocals only.
     
  5. lilcrate

    lilcrate Tortdaddy

    Sep 9, 2013
    St. Louis
    He can't bring his own mic/monitor? I've also seen guitar players use a small extension cab and point it at themselves, although I know that isn't always an option depending on his setup/rig either.
     
  6. maxiegrant

    maxiegrant Bassist in Transition

    Nov 26, 2007
    Sellersburg, IN
    Get him one of those tilt-back amp stands. Point the amp at the player.
     
  7. Technotitclan

    Technotitclan Lurking TB from work

    Mar 1, 2012
    Rochester, NY
    Rig up something so that the cab is tilting back and pointing at the gui****'s head. I had similar issues in my practice space that was resolved by either tilting the guitar cab back against a support pole in the middle of the room or by putting his cab on top of mine.
     
    Mystic Michael and Winfred like this.
  8. buldog5151bass

    buldog5151bass Kibble, milkbones, and P Basses. And redheads.

    Oct 22, 2003
    Connecticut
    If you are going PA for vocals only, and the sound in front is good, then they either have to raise the amps, or get a monitor. You don't want to turn this into a volume fight.
     
    AdamR likes this.
  9. AdamR

    AdamR

    Sep 24, 2007
    Bethel CT
    A 412 on a tilt back ? If your doing a shared backline gig bringing your own floor monitors kinda kills the point. And its both guitarists so now thats 2 monitors, 2 mics, hooking it to the board and hoping whop ever is running sound (usually just a bar employee) can mix them some what right . The drummer also cant hear them but is usually ok if he hears me. Its sad that we rehearse with a better PA than most of these places have. And now bringing ours isnt an option.
     
  10. buldog5151bass

    buldog5151bass Kibble, milkbones, and P Basses. And redheads.

    Oct 22, 2003
    Connecticut
    You have an 8x10, and your guitarists have 4x12s, but you can't bring a PA? I think you have your money in the wrong places.
     
  11. AdamR

    AdamR

    Sep 24, 2007
    Bethel CT
    The PA is supplied and I cant mix and play at the same time. My PA consists of two 2 18" subs, Two 15" mains, Four 15" monitors. Two 2000 watt amps and a 12 channel board. If the bars said bring a PA I would find away to do it. But when they say shared back line they dont want me bringing my PA too. None of these shows are just us playing. Its usually 4 or 5 bands with 10 to 15 minutes between sets.
     
  12. buldog5151bass

    buldog5151bass Kibble, milkbones, and P Basses. And redheads.

    Oct 22, 2003
    Connecticut
    Ah - got you. I know that the sound on stage is often not as good as we want. My attitude is as long as I can see or hear the bass drum, I can get through the gig.
     
  13. lilcrate

    lilcrate Tortdaddy

    Sep 9, 2013
    St. Louis
    It doesn't have to be that complicated. Just a small powered speaker and a mic running directly into it. Just so he can hear himself, not to add to the mix.
     
  14. theduke1

    theduke1 Supporting Member

    Dec 22, 2010
    Manitowoc WI
    That's good it means their playing at the correct volume;)
     
  15. Mystic Michael

    Mystic Michael Hip No Ties

    Apr 1, 2004
    New York, NY
    I can't help ya as far as persuading yer gui****s to spend money wisely is concerned...but for starters, if they'd sell off those 4x12 monstrosities, they'd have more cash to play with right there. Though I hold no hope whatsoever of convincing your typical, average gui**** of this, the fact is that none of them needs a 4x12 cab and a 100-watt Marshall or Mesa amp head for anything less than a high-volume outdoor gig. For ordinary club gigs, a 2x12 cab and a 50-watt tube amp is more than plenty - even without use of a sound system.

    I second the use of a tilt-back amp stand. Not only does it point the speakers closer to the gui****'s head, but it also brings it up higher as well.

    Here's one excellent cab design, offering excellent dispersion and excellent audibility, that they really should consider - but will probably reject out of hand (because it doesn't look rock 'n' roll enough). It features drivers that are upturned 20 degrees, to assist in audibility for the gui****; and crossfired by 15 degrees, to assist greatly in dispersion:

    XF.

    http://www.billfitzmaurice.com/XFCabs.html

    MM
     
    Last edited: Jun 3, 2014
    kbakerde likes this.
  16. AdamR

    AdamR

    Sep 24, 2007
    Bethel CT

    That does look like a great design and its can be made as a 412. The cab I recommended to them is a Mesa Half back. Its a 412 slant cab with the top 2 speakers open in the back which I think would help greatly and they can be bought for around $400



    Thats how I am and the drummer seems ok as long as he can hear me. My lead guitarist seems to think our drummer is the devil and some how him not hearing himself is our drummers fault.
     
  17. buldog5151bass

    buldog5151bass Kibble, milkbones, and P Basses. And redheads.

    Oct 22, 2003
    Connecticut
    Are you allowed to bring extra monitors? Our drummer uses a powered hot spot monitor on a mic stand, and loves it. That would give him the vocals, and raising his amp would take care of his own sounds.
     
  18. Mystic Michael

    Mystic Michael Hip No Ties

    Apr 1, 2004
    New York, NY
    From what you've shared, your guitarist sounds unusually obtuse...even by guitarist standards. :eyebrow:

    MM
     
  19. i sense a new IEM system on the horizon...lol
     
  20. kzr750r1

    kzr750r1

    Aug 12, 2011
    NorCal
    The top cab of a stack Marshall at least the top two speakers tilt back. Your guitarist is likely going def.
     

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