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Guitarist cant hear themselves

There is only one relavent question:

Is the guitarist in is own sweet spot? Because if he isn't, and he complains he can't hear himself, I would either fire him, or consider we "go at it" in the parking lot.

I mean, COME ON, MAN! You can't HEAR YOURSELF?????

Isn't it kind of his job to figure that one out?
 
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I can't help ya as far as persuading yer guitards to spend money wisely is concerned...but for starters, if they'd sell off those 4x12 monstrosities, they'd have more cash to play with right there. Though I hold no hope whatsoever of convincing your typical, average guitard of this, the fact is that none of them needs a 4x12 cab and a 100-watt Marshall or Mesa amp head for anything less than a high-volume outdoor gig. For ordinary club gigs, a 2x12 cab and a 50-watt tube amp is more than plenty - even without use of a sound system.

I second the use of a tilt-back amp stand. Not only does it point the speakers closer to the guitard's head, but it also brings it up higher as well.

Here's one excellent cab design, offering excellent dispersion and excellent audibility, that they really should consider - but will probably reject out of hand (because it doesn't look rock 'n' roll enough). It features drivers that are upturned 20 degrees, to assist in audibility for the guitard; and crossfired by 15 degrees, to assist greatly in dispersion:

XF.jpg


http://www.billfitzmaurice.com/XFCabs.html

MM

+1
 
I always tilt the guitarists cab somewhere and face it directly to his head. He gets the full load and the rest has it still loud, but not loud as shag.

Then there would be the Deeflexx. If it wasn't that expensive I would've bought one already: Invalid Link Removed.
Brilliant thing.

I find it astonishing that no-one ever tried to solve the beaming problem in a manner that it would help everyone. There are some approaches to disperse the sound in the room, but they're all pretty bricolagy...
However, this is the reason I'm such a big fan of modeling amps. You just power your POD/Axe-FX/Kemper with a standard monitor. No beam, directly to the guy playing the guitar... Heaven!
 
We have 2 guitarists also. One gets it, sort of, and ALWAYS has cabinets pointing at his head to overcome his hearing loss(10 years in the road band of a #1 country artist). The other was recently converted when we we did a huge room with GREAT PA provided and he brings a 2x12 combo normally set in the "we always do it this way" behind him. I told him to put it on one side pointed at his head and have the vocal monitor on the other side. "I never thought of that". He tried it and "It was the best I could hear myself on a large stage in a long time" was the result.
For GREAT PA places, I do the same as shown in the picture. In the pic below, the right vocal monitor is OFF for us as the opening act. The signal to the 12" amp is EQ'd so it is mostly mids and highs and I get lows from the PA subs and bass in the drummer's monitor(s).

042812 System.JPG
 
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That does look like a great design and its can be made as a 412. The cab I recommended to them is a Mesa Half back. Its a 412 slant cab with the top 2 speakers open in the back which I think would help greatly and they can be bought for around $400.

They don't need 4x12 cabs. In fact, because they are such overkill for the great majority of gig environments, the 4x12s almost certainly create more problems than they're worth. That's the whole point! :eyebrow:

MM
 
Mesa and Carvin at least, maybe others, used to make 212's that looked just like half a 412 split the vertical way, with the bottom speaker facing forward and the top one angled back a bit. If I recall, those were easier to hear just from having 2 less speakers blaring and still ran loud enough to hurt somebody and had the fuller/bigger sound you get from running more than one speaker.

I already inquired of Bill F. regarding the vertical 2x12 design, vis-a-vis his XF design. His reply was that the vertical 2x12 will have wider dispersion in the midrange, while the XF will have wider dispersion in the higher frequencies - with the dividing frequency being in the vicinity of around 1.5 kHz or so. You can read it for yourself:

[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

MM
 
Then have them get sealed 212s and aim them at their ears. A 212 is also way easier to fit behind a drummer or on the side (or corner angled) of a stage.

If you get the speaker at his ears, he'll be able to hear. If he still can't, he's def. I've played with guys who just can't hear anymore from time to time. It's almost always gtr or drums...
 
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There is only one relavent question:

Is the guitarist in is own sweet spot? Because if he isn't, and he complains he can't hear himself, I would either fire him, or consider we "go at it" in the parking lot.

I mean, COME ON, MAN! You can't HEAR YOURSELF?????

Isn't it kind of his job to figure that one out?

So, a player says he can't hear himself, and your options are to fire him or fight him?????
 
I've worked (briefly) with guitarists who've complained about not hearing themselves—but who didn't want to elevate their face-melting cabs, because "it would be way too loud if it were pointing at my ears"! Yeah, buddy, that's kinda the point.
When I was once in a VERY loud rock band, we rehearsed in an A shaped attic. We all wore earplugs. We offer some to the new guitard, he declines and says, "I'm used to it".
...No, that's called hearing loss...
 
First off. Getting a cab or amp stand to just SLANT the cabinet from the floor upwards will not - and has never ever - resolved the problem. It's still not angled phase right. It's all about the actual beam. The thing to use is just ONE 1x12 sealed cab on a heft stand that's height adjustable and make the core center of the speaker point in an exact 90 degree angle to YOUR (i e guitarist) EAR. Not head, or just about the height of a guitar player. Right into the ear! No stack in the world will get you there. The 4x12 stacks, stacks up at the wrong height and give you PHASE CANCELLATIONS due to the many speakers involved and contributes to anyone standing near "not hearing themselves".

See, even EGNATER has these TONEBRAs* where it's a circle of spokes that you put in front of the speaker center to spread out the dangerous high end that has this "death ray area" right in front of it. That's why everybody else hears the guitarist but himself. But that one is just made to spare other people from what guitarist should hear anyway.

We have solved the following in our rehearsal space. We raised every guitar speaker, and including bass, PA monitors on hefty adjustable shelves around the walls, and make sure that every CENTER of the speaker is aimed at a perfect 90 degree to each players ears (they're of course different height), and NO TILT AT ALL. We lowered all volume by 6 db which is half and everyone hears each other now, and upper end too. So, if anyone's too loud the one that is struck by this first and foremost is that player himself. Not once has anyone asked anyone else to turn down. Or UP mind you! Now, if this was possible in a live situation too I'd be all game. But there all problems turns up.

I have solved this with a Quiklok triangle stand which can take 25 kilo. A bass cab on top. However, since it is 120 cm and I am 5"6 there's a little more to go. On stage, the only real estate space you have left is always UPWARDS. I have the cab and a head UNDERNEATH it, so the 1x12 bass speaker points right 90 degree angle into my ear. Even if I turn on it it's still there, or walk away a few feet, it's stille 90 degrees pointing at my ear. The space underneath it I can use as a bass guitar stand. And has modified it to do so. However, as it is a bass, there's a 15" cab too, that MUST reside on the floor, which is separated from this. So this is my monitoring and the floor 15 inch cab is for the rest of the people in band and audience. Never, ever heard on single person complain to me, about either being too loud or being to soft. Soundmen engineers loves this. However, there's a caveat. If you sing vocals too, there's a pretty good chance that the voice mike will pick up the sound from the speaker more, that if it was on the floor, or away from the mike. However, bass and voice doesn't interfere with each others so it's much better to EQ out the bass at the mixing desk, leaking into the mike. On guitar though, they may share at least the same space in frequency, but then again, then you don't need to mike up the guitar amp!!!! :)

I'd wish the industry should make HIGH ADJUSTABLE amp cab stands, WITH the possibility to use as a guitar/bass stand underneath it all. Saves a lot of stage space! And for posers, yes, your brand and guitars would still be visible to the audience.

*similar to Deeflex that was mentioned earlier. It is all about the BEAM!
 
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So there, you see there's a reason these small PA'systems that has a sub on the floor and then a stick, or pole, and then the top end at the upper speaker enclosure. Something like that but for guitarists, and bassists too.
 
I would think the main reason for that is simply to put the top end up high enough, for better dispersion in the room and to put the horn above the heads of the audience so they don't have the horn in their ears. The bass is not directional and you get better efficiency if it is coupled to the floor, so it needs to stay low. This design of PA speakers has little or nothing to do with the subject whether a guitairst hears himself or not.
 
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Yeah, you know I will give you one thing, though. If your guitarist can't hear himself, there is one tiny little possibility that THE ENTIRE BAND'S STAGE VOLUME IS WAY WAY WAY WAY WAY WAY WAY TOO LOUD!!!!

One reason I'm so violent all the time is, I'm a singer, and people assault my throat, and people assault my ears. This is violence being done to me, and I WILL retaliate.

You are killing me. Destroying tissue in MY BODY. And you are doing it through ignorance, willful arrogance, or stupidity. YOU WILL STOP.

On our stage, you can talk in a normal voice, and everyone will hear you. Does our drummer have an extra quiet drum kit? Not that I'm aware of. Four drummers before him played in a phone booth. (drum shield I paid a lot of money for) Our current drummer earned the right not to be in the booth, because he understands DYNAMICS.

There are a lot of people who play music. Very few of them are musicians.