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Guitarist cant hear themselves

#61
Well it sort of has. The design of it. If the top would have the horn pointed in guitards ear it sure would letting him get heard. For starters, I've always wondered about all these 100W Marshalls with 4x12 cabinet? Is it an alpha male thing? No one I ever played with, who had this equipment, really needed it, anywhere we've played, and it didn't sound that good until turned up. But then it was too late and too loud. The design of most, if not all guitar or bass cabs resides still in the 50's when there was basically no PA's around, and monitors wasn't heard of. Today there's another ballgame, and they still produces them amps like the one's in the back of an arena should be able to hear the guitar or bass from that lone cabinet. Beats me.

I've never played at such a venue where any 100w Marshall amp, with a 4x12 was needed. Like others had said here already, just huge, large OUTDOOR gigs calls for that. Or not even then, most of the times! I hope that the band RUSH stage equipment and layout will start a huge movement and other will take on. But as long as guitards are show off people and alpha male posers, we'll still have to be stuck with them.

- - - - SIDE NOTE GUITARD ANECDOTE OF RECENT ---

THe other day I was at Sweden Rock festival. Old Ozzy Osborne guitarist Jake E Lee started the day around noon, with playing his band Badlands tunes. A shredder of repute. Been around for a while. Professional. Huge outdoor stage. Three Marshall amp heads on stage, and 4 4x12 stacks. Straight not slanted. Now, the set was infested by the following technical problems: As fast as Jake E Lee played a superfast shredding solo, the fuse in his amp blew! Turned silent! And they had to stop the song midway. Now, if this happened once, it would be ok. They re-routed the amp cords, and he played on the other head. Now, two songs into it, he started to shred like hell again, and that amp blew there too! It turned silent again! Now this happened a third time, and then I began to wonder. The audience started to shake their heads, and giggled, but were supportive of him anyway. Now this made me start to think:

Has BMW started to design Marshall amps?

Way back in the 80-90s they had a car model that stopped the fuel injection to the engine, if you drove past 200 km/hour! Maybe they've produced an amp that just craps out on whoever is shredding too fast? I mean, it seems like that. :-) One time, is just a coincidence, two times...but three? No way that's a coincidence. They replaced the fuses, while he was playing but the resulting guitar sound out in the PA was sort of a bee-buzz only. No low end, or palm chunk heftiness. Pity, because otherwise that was a good gig. He used 4x12 and 100w, three of them, but no one of them held up. Not even when they were working.

That amps craps out when playing too loud, have we heard of before. That may be all of them really.
 
#63
Mystic Michael said:
I can't help ya as far as persuading yer guitards to spend money wisely is concerned...but for starters, if they'd sell off those 4x12 monstrosities, they'd have more cash to play with right there. Though I hold no hope whatsoever of convincing your typical, average guitard of this, the fact is that none of them needs a 4x12 cab and a 100-watt Marshall or Mesa amp head for anything less than a high-volume outdoor gig. For ordinary club gigs, a 2x12 cab and a 50-watt tube amp is more than plenty - even without use of a sound system.

I second the use of a tilt-back amp stand. Not only does it point the speakers closer to the guitard's head, but it also brings it up higher as well.

Here's one excellent cab design, offering excellent dispersion and excellent audibility, that they really should consider - but will probably reject out of hand (because it doesn't look rock 'n' roll enough). It features drivers that are upturned 20 degrees, to assist in audibility for the guitard; and crossfired by 15 degrees, to assist greatly in dispersion:

XF.jpg


http://www.billfitzmaurice.com/XFCabs.html

MM
Click to expand...
+1
Best set up I ever worked with was a guitarist who used 2 Fender De Villes, one on each side of the stage, both with tilt back stands.
 
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#64
Invalid Link Removed

Not a speaker cab in sight. Props are for their steampunk tour. Geddys answer to as no to use any bass cabs too, anymore on stage:

"Because Geddy uses preamps directly to the PA and his in-ear monitors, and doesn't need/use conventional amps anymore. The dryers, etc, are more or less to mock guitarists." :cool:
 
#65
The thing is "anymore". Is it that they've grown up and that it has slowly dawned to them? Or is it that the gear used today (like Palmer speaker cab simulators) including in-ear monitors renders these things totally unnecessary?
 
#66
Or a guitar cab that has elevation built in. Elevate the volume? When the master volume knob is raised, the whole cab/combo elevates upwards... ha ha. Would be a nice thing though. It is one thing with this volume, but the thing is that they seem to NEED more speakers, like 4x12 in one cab that is much to my chagrin. Like they're getting more volume then. I find this with all multienclosure speakers, just as well as when they're open backed. The initial transient attack becomes blurred, as well as phase anomalies starting to occur. 1x12 is a enough for any guitarist really. You don't even need 2x12.
 
#68
Isn't it all about this, really?
61054_1469737980201_1136143305_31263163_7305302_n.jpg


The reason why he can't hear himself? Never ever heard of or seen any Ampeg 8x10 dummy stacks for bass. The reason for alpha male and posers:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marsha...reaker.2C_the_Plexi.2C_and_the_Marshall_stack

"Malmsteen toured with 30 heads and 28 cabinets, and in 2011 said he would use 60 full stacks on his next tour.[21] Many of those cabs used by rock bands, however, are dummies, and many artists who do not even use Marshall amplifiers have the dummy stacks on stage."
 
#70
mellowinman said:
Yeah, you know I will give you one thing, though. If your guitarist can't hear himself, there is one tiny little possibility that THE ENTIRE BAND'S STAGE VOLUME IS WAY WAY WAY WAY WAY WAY WAY TOO LOUD!!!!

One reason I'm so violent all the time is, I'm a singer, and people assault my throat, and people assault my ears. This is violence being done to me, and I WILL retaliate.

You are killing me. Destroying tissue in MY BODY. And you are doing it through ignorance, willful arrogance, or stupidity. YOU WILL STOP.

On our stage, you can talk in a normal voice, and everyone will hear you. Does our drummer have an extra quiet drum kit? Not that I'm aware of. Four drummers before him played in a phone booth. (drum shield I paid a lot of money for) Our current drummer earned the right not to be in the booth, because he understands DYNAMICS.

There are a lot of people who play music. Very few of them are musicians.
Click to expand...

Thank you. Every bit of this is spot-on.

Riis
 
#71
Although it hasn't happened to me yet, I know one of my fellow colleagues who - actually - was a guitarist/singer too, and started to gather his own band. He RULED/OWNED the rehearsal space, including a nice PA, and was the one who called the shots so to speak. Now, he did have a thing with that he should "hire" no-friends, and no one that he knew from before, and thus put out ads about wanted musicians. He required another solo guitarist, because his talents was more of the chording/singer songwriter stuff. He tried all of them out for audition, and the guitarist brought out a small practice amp. Fair enough. Now, when the whole band should assemble their gear into the rehearsal space/studio one day, he caming lugging with the Marshall 100 W 4x12, and the man who ran the band, said "What ?! You don't going to bring that into my small rehearsal space..are you? My rehearsal space is not for storing things we don't use". He replied "No no, wait, this is my amp, and I am going to play on it...".

Without discussion, my fellow colleague asked him to turn on the wheels of the cab around and lug it back into his car, and said "If you don't have another smaller amp to bring, then you're out of this band, even before entering". Then small arguments and sparks flew. About him trying to impress others in the band, with his gear and so on. Of course.

He got tired of all the tryouts, and arguments that he had before, and through experience have learned that there is no two ways about it. He dissed this guitard just by the sight of his equipment that he should bring into a confined space, and use and play on. Because he didn't want to deal with the upcoming loudness wars or argument. Since he was calling the shots, it was either his way or the highway. That's was the primary reason he chose musicians that was not old friends, or that he knew from before. Only then he could be that straight, frank, and candid, not to say, downright acid against them, without having anything to lose. Me myself, would've asked about this beforehand, and try to find other things about this guitard. It's very easy to check out other musicians first, on other gigs, and so on.

He did the exact same thing with another bassist who tried to lug in his Ampeg 300W and - lo and behold - TWO 8x10 stacks into that rehearsal space. So bass player can be just as "guitardic" as guitards. He eventually settled on people he liked, and had that professionality going on within them. The poser days, were all behind them. And yes, all of them hears themselves, and each other, both in that rehearsal space, and live. He's even have recurring gigs, on the same place, they want the band back for another gig...;-)
 
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