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Double Bass Gut Strings: Are They Worth It To Try? (part I)

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#261
After some really sketchy tuning in a duo today I vowed to put my Belcantos back on when I got home today
BUT
Before I got that far I saw another local bass player and he wanted to try them out
After hearing him play my bass for a few moments (first time getting to hear them from a few feet out) I fell back in love
He offered to buy them right there for twice what I paid, but I just could give in quite yet
This has been such a rollercoaster ride :S
Starting to get further with bowing - rosined up a lot more than usual and it's finally bringing some power into the strings
Tone is still brash but it's warming
 
#262
So, I'm taking my bass out of the house to play in other places with other people 3 times in the next 7 days and that will be the real test, BUT, my home studio impressions are quite good. I love the feel, meatiness, tension, response back from being pizzed hard and I love the sound. My motive here is a body friendly setup that I can work with, but I do love that sound. Most the darker "gutlike" strings I've tried in the past were "gutlike" in that they didn't have a bright edge to them, but there wasn't a lot of bloom to the note either. I feel like, dispite being darker, my lone gut string at this point has no problem keeping pace with the spriocores next to it. It's got a big, strong fundemental. It's an honest sound. I feel like the harder I lean on it, the more it responds. Doesn't back off anywhere up through thumb position.

And, the point for me, quite easy to play on.

The test, as I said, is what will it be like out in the world, which I'll know soon enough.
 
#263
Feel free to call me on the phone on break when you get halfway through the gig and realize the G strings is leaving you in the dirt. I'll listen to you rant. It will be fun.
 
#268
Uncletoad said:
Feel free to call me on the phone on break when you get halfway through the gig and realize the G strings is leaving you in the dirt. I'll listen to you rant. It will be fun.
Click to expand...

If you go to the gig planning on playing the gut G like you played the Spiro G expecting the same kind of outcome, UncleT's statement above will come to pass. I'd bring a Mittel G with me to change out on the break. Gut requires a bit of a different approach. It doesn't cut through a band like steel strings do. It is more percussive and, sonically, it sits under the band. If you try to cut through the band with it, you're doomed to failure and frustration.

I switched from Spiro Mittels to all gut almost two months ago. I KNEW that I was going to fall on my face for at least the first couple of weeks trying to get used to the guts and to find what works on them and, more importantly, what doesn't. It took about 6 weeks for me to get to the point where I feel like I'm hitting most of the time. I'm still not as consistent as I was with Spiros but I'm getting close. It took that long to get my steel chops worked out on gut (if you want to hear where I'm at as far as chops go, check out my Myspace page and listen to something called "gut improvisation").

My suggestion if you really want to learn to play on gut strings is to buy at least a gut D and keep them on for a month or two and shed like crazy. You will either figure out how to play them or you'll give up on them. There is no shame giving up on them. This is my third try but also, by far, the most successful. At this point, I can't imagine going back to steel strings.

mark
 
#269
Uncletoad said:
Feel free to call me on the phone on break when you get halfway through the gig and realize the G strings is leaving you in the dirt. I'll listen to you rant. It will be fun.
Click to expand...

So, Phil.... is this like an "oh s***, I'm in over my head" thing? Not sure I understand.

As I said before, I've played only on cheap guts on borrowed bad basses. Like any bass that I encounter on the road, I tried to make friends with it before the show, and ended up making some music. I don't remember anything particularly traumatic about the actual act of playing guts. I've even bowed a student's cheapo Chinese bass, strung with Clef guts. It wasn't as bad as I thought it would be. Another time, I played an all unwound gut set on a terrible bass (with the Framus Metal bridge, no less), with the fabulous bop alto legend Gabe Baltazar. Four hours, lots of soloing and crazy tempos.. It was a workout, but I didn't die, and I think I got off some pretty good **** along the way. It was definitely better than the Engelhardt, strung with Weichs, with the fretless bass string height that I encountered a couple of months ago. That was tough.

Change strings on the break? Ehhh.... dunno bout that. I think I'd rather plow through.

It all just makes me wonder a little. Sure love the feel and the sound.
 
#270
Marcus Johnson said:
So, Phil.... is this like an "oh s***, I'm in over my head" thing? Not sure I understand.
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Just being on the rag man.

Love guts on top. Hate Guts on top.

It's like that with me.

Living with them across a bunch of gigs and season changes is significantly harder than spirocores. You never know what you get from gig to gig venue to venue with Guts. Sometimes glorious beyond words sometimes a complete ****ing nighmare.

Spirocores are right down the middle of the road and they never completely suck or make me mess myself from joy. Sometimes in the middle of winter or outside in 90 degree humid heat that's exactly what I need.
 
#272
I had an amazing gig tonight with the "loud" band. I was actually a bit concerned about this one. This was the first time I played with this band since putting the guts on. It turned out unbelievably well. The drummer is a busy, somewhat loud, player and when I played steel string, I had to be careful not to conflict with what he was playing because we were in the same space. With guts, I'm sonically underneath what he's playing. I could play anything I wanted and we never ran over or into each other. It was heaven.

mark
 
#274
calivox said:
I had an amazing gig tonight with the "loud" band .... With guts, I'm sonically underneath what he's playing. I could play anything I wanted and we never ran over or into each other. It was heaven.
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I have zero-clue about the music you play Mark :D .... But I think I know what you mean here. I had a short-career-gig playing my 3-plain-pistoy-gut / one-Garbo-E Kay for a "loud" alt-country band with Telecaster and drum-set.

I was runnin' my Rev II p-up into a Coda and Wizzy M-Line (no line-out to the PA). Seems I was able to hook-up with the drummer and still hear what I was playing and we mostly-smiled at each other. Not knowing doodley about the "sonically underneath" deal ;) .... I think for me it comes down to the guts having such a strong fundamental that holds steady with no frills. When I played a note ... That was just what it was ... A Note. I'm outta my league here Boys .... Carry On.

P.S. I'll try not to let the swinging door hit me in my-butt as I walk-on-out of here :D .
 
#275
Bob Knebel said:
I have zero-clue about the music you play Mark :D .... But I think I know what you mean here. I had a short-career-gig playing my 3-plain-pistoy-gut / one-Garbo-E Kay for a "loud" alt-country band with Telecaster and drum-set.

I was runnin' my Rev II p-up into a Coda and Wizzy M-Line (no line-out to the PA). Seems I was able to hook-up with the drummer and still hear what I was playing and we mostly-smiled at each other. Not knowing doodley about the "sonically underneath" deal ;) .... I think for me it comes down to the guts having such a strong fundamental that holds steady with no frills. When I played a note ... That was just what it was ... A Note. I'm outta my league here Boys .... Carry On.

P.S. I'll try not to let the swinging door hit me in my-butt as I walk-on-out of here :D .
Click to expand...

Hold it right there son! You're partially responsible for this gut string dealio and I don't believe for a minute your feigned ignorance.

I mean Troy for god's sakes!?

And Marcus, you all realize he's gonna freakin' crack soon, don't you?

-J

BTW- a telecaster is an instrument of the devil surely, but only in the right hands...
 
#278
JeffKissell said:
And Marcus, you all realize he's gonna freakin' crack soon, don't you?
Click to expand...

There's always that possibility..... remember how long ago it was that you offered to let me try out your setup? :eek:

The Evahs are working out amazingly well for me.... but I do want to try good guts on this bass some day.

Bob... for me, the "sonically underneath" gut thing is exemplified by the sound I hear from PC, Wilber Ware, Doug Watkins, early Ray, Mingus, Oscar Pettiford.... where it seems the the bass is really pushing all the music up from the bottom.... as opposed the the more modern steel sound, where the bass seems to sit more in the middle of the mix, in a more interactive role in many cases. That's probably oversimplifying it a bit.
 
#279
That is the sexiness of the Gut experience. Occupying a space that is all it's own even when things get dense.

It's what makes them compelling to me even moreso than playing by themselves.

If I just walked behind things---or rather underneath things all the time there is no better setup. They are very sweet for country and bluegrass for the same reasons.

They are just a huge ****ing pain in the ass though. I can't express how annoyed I'd get at some gigs when I couldn't get them to stop drifting or I couldn't tame the mud or even tried to get a decent bowed vibe from them.

Maybe I'd feel different with the whole set...or if I had more skill with the bow...or whatever.

One of these days I'll try them on the AQ. I haven't gone there yet cause I don't want to like it and then have to live with that PITA again.....
 
#280
So you guys make fun, but I may have to cut my gut experience short this week. Not for the reasons you think though. I really like playing on it and am very impressed with the sound I'm getting. Blends freakishly well with the Spriocores et al.

But, every other piece of my equipment that I own is acting up on me right now and I need to start isolating problems so that I can address them. It may be best to do so with a non-experimental set up.

I've got buzzes and rattles and drivers failing and maybe even something going on inside my bass. I'll try to spend the day troubleshooting, but if I can't figure it out, I may put my Spirocore G string back on just to have one completely predictable thing in the signal process.

If I do, I'll start the Gamut experiment over again when I'm banished the demons back to hell.
 
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