I guess I've missed 'em.... I always just saw that little short clip of Scotty soloing.
Enjoy the benefits of a premium membership!
Upgrade Account
-
TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
Join free Log in
Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.
Double Bass Gut Strings: Are They Worth It To Try? (part I)
- Thread starter Kevin Hsieh
- Start date
- Status
I guess I've missed 'em.... I always just saw that little short clip of Scotty soloing.
Context, my man.
The comment was in reference to an earlier post where I pontificated as to where gut sits in the mix as opposed to steel and their respective relationships to the drummer. Gut lives below the sonic space of the drumkit while steel competes for sonic space which changes the dynamic between bass and drums when interacting.
This all stemmed from a discovery I made last night when playing with a fairly loud, busy drummer. I noticed that I had much more freedom to play obligato-type background figures against what the drummer was doing as compared to when I played with him using steel. If I had tried to play the same way with Spiros, there would have been some nasty, very unmusical conflicts because of where the bass is in the mix. With gut, I discovered, I can play lines against what the drummer is playing and it sounds good and all in a way that I just couldn't do with Spiros. After playing steel for decades and getting a good feel for what I could do and when, it was an eye opening experience. It opened up a whole new avenue to explore.
Once again, it was about finding what gut does well and steel doesn't and visa versa. I can't muscle through the band with gut, any idea I do play isn't going to have the same muscle and weight that steel has and the band has to open space for me to solo in with gut. On the other hand, gut sits under the band and drives it from the bottom which is insanely cool, I have a lot more freedom to play obligato-like background figures without competing with the drummer for sonic space which opens up a lot of territory that I'm eager to explore and, for me anyway, soloing has a much more vocal quality to it.
I don't think I'm communicating this idea very well. It's something I could demonstrate clearly and quickly. Writing about music is hard.
mark
Sounds most like Animas to me, don't know about the goldwrap though...Do you think you can post a picture at it?
I'll try to get a picture up tomorrow
Did a gig tonight
Really like the Obligato
The Velvet is good... but not great
I would have loved to do it on the guts, my fingers feel a little rough going back to steel tension
BUT
I don't think I'd have made most of the tempos on the guts, and the steels felt loose enough after the gig got underway that I think the guts would have been floppin' all over
It's all good, and I think I hear where you're coming from. The other side of that coin is that with steel, I don't feel I have to play as much, and can interact with a sustained, more lyrical kind of sound, which is along the lines of what I hear anyway. I admire the gut vibe when someone is hearing what it can do and is best at (like Scotty), but I still have zero desire to go there personally. I just wanted to make sure that you weren't trying to claim that interacting with steel strings necessarily meant "getting in the way", which I would have to take exception to based on my own personal experience.
[/derail]
Greg Clinkingbeard
Commercial User
I'm game. Been lurking here and thinking at some point I should dive in. The water is warm, right?
I bought some strings from Bobby King several weeks ago and decided to try them on my old plywood. The mix is a plain gut G, Garbo D and A and Anima E. I was a bit skeptical of this mix because the bass is pretty dark sounding and of all the previous strings I've tried, mittels worked best. This mix of strings is great on the old ply the tone is big, punchy and very growly down low. The bass now has a much deeper low end and has lost most of it's nasal character. The nasal thing has been a reminder that you can't have everything.
The gut G has a bright snap to each note that gives it some definition. I find myself playing some fast runs up the G that almost sound like a very poor imitation of Scotty. I do love the feel and ability to fly. It is a bit brighter than the Garbos and the tension is lower, but it's not a bad match. It's a strange thing to be able to play more things than I ever could on steels, but this mix just allows me to get more ideas out than I would have thought.
With the big bass out of comission right now, awaiting a fresh set of good Animas, I'm going to give the gut thing a good month or so of play. This is going to be a fun adventure.
I bought some strings from Bobby King several weeks ago and decided to try them on my old plywood. The mix is a plain gut G, Garbo D and A and Anima E. I was a bit skeptical of this mix because the bass is pretty dark sounding and of all the previous strings I've tried, mittels worked best. This mix of strings is great on the old ply the tone is big, punchy and very growly down low. The bass now has a much deeper low end and has lost most of it's nasal character. The nasal thing has been a reminder that you can't have everything.
The gut G has a bright snap to each note that gives it some definition. I find myself playing some fast runs up the G that almost sound like a very poor imitation of Scotty. I do love the feel and ability to fly. It is a bit brighter than the Garbos and the tension is lower, but it's not a bad match. It's a strange thing to be able to play more things than I ever could on steels, but this mix just allows me to get more ideas out than I would have thought.
With the big bass out of comission right now, awaiting a fresh set of good Animas, I'm going to give the gut thing a good month or so of play. This is going to be a fun adventure.
I'm glad you brought that up because the whole point of all of this is to find ways to express yourself. Every one of us is an individual and should have and be able to express their own personality on their instrument. Some of us play fast, some play lyrically, some play quarter notes for solos. It's ALL good. I get super PO'd when I read posts from guys who play one way ragging on guys who play another way (less opaque: it is usually guys without chops ragging on guys with chops).
If you are a chopsy kind of player and you are a type A kind of guy then playing fast IS a direct reflection of your personality. It is your truth. If you are more introspective, playing lyrically and finding just the right note is a direct reflection of your personality, to name two examples.
The choice of string should complement your playing style and help express your personality. For me, right now, gut is what I'm after. My travails as posted on this thread are the details of my journey from steel strings where I had a bank of techniques, licks and ideas that I could rely on when inspiration wasn't hitting to gut where I have to make it up as I go. In case there is any doubt, I don't think gut strings are superior to steel strings. That's just silly. They are two different and equally valid ways to get to whatever truth you are trying to tell and describing the differences as they come up, I think, is interesting.
mark
- May 6, 2003
- 5,272
- 160
- 64
- Disclosures
- Proprietor Fifth Avenue Fret Shop. Technical Editor Bass Gear Magazine
I too love gut strings. They made me play very differently in a good way.
I looked back yesterday at a thread when I put them on the old carved bass and just loved the tone.
I remember taking them back off when I played a gig where it was hot and humid and I kept sticking to the strings so bad I couldn't groove at all. I was constantly late. When I played them regularly I was using baby powder on my hands when I played to keep the sweat from hanging me up on the strings. You'd look at the bass at the end of a particularly wet gig and it was covered with baby powder stuck in rosin. Yuck.
Depressing as I really love that sound.
I've often wished I had several basses so I could take my Gut bass out when the environment was right, leave my carved bass with arco friendly strings at home for my practice and then a third bass with spiros for everything else.
Cant do that.
Let's see...the old carved lady for arco practice and special occasions, the Cleveland for spiro all-purpose duty and a brand spankin new hybrid La Scala for the prime gut gigs.
- May 6, 2003
- 5,272
- 160
- 64
- Disclosures
- Proprietor Fifth Avenue Fret Shop. Technical Editor Bass Gear Magazine
We are as one with this.
Agreed, and BTW, you just nailed exactly what I'm going for with the second half of the above. Of course, that could just be a rationalization for not having the chops to be "chopsy".
Thanks Jeff
... But I'll bet Troy, Marcus, and everybody else can handle themselves just fine visa-vee spending too-much money on gut strings. Sorry Folks .... I had to edit out my "bad attitude" .... The micro-brews led me to talk trash late last night 
.
Dear all loyal gut players, gut-like players, and vicarious gut players:
I've recorded a couple new tracks with my trio and posted them on my Myspace. Modestly recorded in an Manhattan School of Music. The sound quality of the Myspace music player kills the sound, but you can get an idea!
All feedback is welcome
Link Removed
I've recorded a couple new tracks with my trio and posted them on my Myspace. Modestly recorded in an Manhattan School of Music. The sound quality of the Myspace music player kills the sound, but you can get an idea!
All feedback is welcome
Link Removed
And... I'm back to all Spiros
I think my gut experiment is over with, I had some hand problems moving back to steel tension and don't want to go through more back and forth
I've got an Oliv G in the mail though, so we'll see where that takes me
I think my gut experiment is over with, I had some hand problems moving back to steel tension and don't want to go through more back and forth
I've got an Oliv G in the mail though, so we'll see where that takes me
I was in New York last Week and I was anxious to ear Kevin Play at the Cleopatra's Needle and give some feedback. I got sick... maybe next time Kevin.
You gotta go where your muse takes you. It was worth trying. I tried twice before really making a go of it this time. You might try again in the future.
I had a really bad night with the guts on Saturday. Bad room, air conditioning was blowing on me and my D, A and E were going sharp and I couldn't keep it tune, drummer and guitar player who didn't understand that I couldn't solo through them and that they needed to make space for me. Turns out my bridge needed adjustment and it was screwing with my sound too. I played my worst since putting guts on the bass in March. The "moment" was a concept that I didn't have any personal experience with on Saturday, if you know what I mean.
I was pretty depressed afterward. Pulled out the bass with the Spiros on it for the first time since April. Sounded puny compared to what I was used to but it would have cut right through and wouldn't have gone sharp.
Got over it though. Reset the bridge on the gut bass. Practiced for a couple of hours today and everything's right as rain again. I've had plenty of bad nights with Spiros too where the sound was lousy or the bass wasn't cooperating or I just wasn't in the right head space. I was due one with the gut bass. Still sucked though.
mark
- May 6, 2003
- 5,272
- 160
- 64
- Disclosures
- Proprietor Fifth Avenue Fret Shop. Technical Editor Bass Gear Magazine
Thus endeth my gut experiment. Thanks, John for loaning me the Gamuts.
I actually really liked it and had fun with it. There was some adjustment to my playing that I could have made. It bowed fine...I know I say that about every string and I swear, I suck with the bow, but playing scales up into thumb position, it was fine. Loved the feel and gauge. That will continue to haunt me. And I loved the sound. I would have had to go much further and spent more time with it to figure out if it sonically would work for me out in the real world and some of you have already done that work for me. But, it's just not the time.
I'm playing with a bunch of new people which I'm really excited about and I'm playing music that I love but is slightly out of my comfort zone and I'm having some signal chain problems that I haven't found yet. I thought my wizzy driver had failed, then my GK started making a similar sound, then I briefly heard it unplugged, but can't reproduce it. Jake's going to be here on Sunday I'll get him to look. May be a loose seem, maybe the wire from my pickup bouncing off of the tailpiece or something, I don't know..or it could still be my amp.
but at any rate, I needed to eliminate a variable and adjusting to different strings was the one variable that I felt I could easily eliminate.
And..I hate to say this, but I want to a friend's (piano player) lesson with him this afternoon and damned if Spirocores don't sound freaking amazing behind two grand pianos with no amp. They really are astoundingly great strings. I'm not swearing off trying other things and I'm not even sure that I won't give gut a more fair chance again some day, but to paraphrase Marcus, when you got a bunch of stuff going on and someone's about to count it off and you have to deal dispite whatever, it's very comforting to know you've got Spirocores and that is one thing that you don't have to worry about any more. ...sorry, if I'm misquoting you, Marcus, but it's the truth.
I'll keep reading and I'll keep listening. I will say that the EP Weichs are getting very tempting, but I'll save that for some time when I feel like I can experiment again.
Thanks to all,
I actually really liked it and had fun with it. There was some adjustment to my playing that I could have made. It bowed fine...I know I say that about every string and I swear, I suck with the bow, but playing scales up into thumb position, it was fine. Loved the feel and gauge. That will continue to haunt me. And I loved the sound. I would have had to go much further and spent more time with it to figure out if it sonically would work for me out in the real world and some of you have already done that work for me. But, it's just not the time.
I'm playing with a bunch of new people which I'm really excited about and I'm playing music that I love but is slightly out of my comfort zone and I'm having some signal chain problems that I haven't found yet. I thought my wizzy driver had failed, then my GK started making a similar sound, then I briefly heard it unplugged, but can't reproduce it. Jake's going to be here on Sunday I'll get him to look. May be a loose seem, maybe the wire from my pickup bouncing off of the tailpiece or something, I don't know..or it could still be my amp.
but at any rate, I needed to eliminate a variable and adjusting to different strings was the one variable that I felt I could easily eliminate.
And..I hate to say this, but I want to a friend's (piano player) lesson with him this afternoon and damned if Spirocores don't sound freaking amazing behind two grand pianos with no amp. They really are astoundingly great strings. I'm not swearing off trying other things and I'm not even sure that I won't give gut a more fair chance again some day, but to paraphrase Marcus, when you got a bunch of stuff going on and someone's about to count it off and you have to deal dispite whatever, it's very comforting to know you've got Spirocores and that is one thing that you don't have to worry about any more. ...sorry, if I'm misquoting you, Marcus, but it's the truth.
I'll keep reading and I'll keep listening. I will say that the EP Weichs are getting very tempting, but I'll save that for some time when I feel like I can experiment again.
Thanks to all,
No, that's pretty accurate, I think. For me, the Evah Weichs are the next evolution of the same idea, and better for my tastes on my bass, but the concept is the same.... any group, any style, any key, any tempo, any room, pizz or arco.... just no worries. No limits imposed by the strings. Spiros give you that peace of mind.
It's weird.... if I didn't rely on the bass to pay my bills.... if I played as a hobbyist.... I might try all kinds of exotic string combinations. As it stands, everything just has to work perfectly (or as close as possible) every time I pick up the instrument.
- Status
