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Double Bass Gut Strings: Are They Worth It To Try? (part I)

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#321
Yeah, I agree on all counts. I just couldn't deal with the futzing around right now. I really enjoyed the gut experiment and might have enjoyed it more if I didn't have so much going on. In the end, I just want to play well and need my equipment to function well.

The EP Weichs are very tempting to me. I very nearly loved the regulars, but they were tough on both me and the bass physically and didn't sound quite clear enough in all situations. I still stuck with them for a year and based on what you guys are writing about them, if the regulars had been like the weichs, I would have stuck with them. The gauge of mittels with the tension of mittels > weichs. More clarity and punch, same good stuff.

I don't want to screw around right now, but I may look for a good time to try a set out. The gut was just too big of a variable for me right now. But, I did like it. If I had a 2nd bass....
 
#325
Time for another progress report.

I am SO in love with these gut strings. Outside of a bad session a couple of weeks ago (described previously), I've had nothing but great experiences with them.

I played a concert tonight. The sound of the guts driving the band is just the best sound I've ever heard. It was heaven. Everything I hear in my head, I can play. The bass just sits in the best place in the mix. The guys in the band are sensitive to my soloing needs (i.e. they open a nice hole for me to play in).

I've got a duo gig tomorrow with a saxophonist. I just can't wait to hit.

I did an overdub recording session for a friend of mine last Friday (put some bass down on singer songwriter's song). I had booked 2 hours of studio time because I didn't know the song and had to figure out a part at the session. Turned out I knocked it off in 20 minutes. I spent about 45 minutes playing solo bass improvisations. I'm going to post two of them on my Myspace page tonight. One is solo rendition of All Blues and the other is a 13 minute medley of as many tunes as I could (almost) remember the heads for (some I hacked up pretty good, too). The sound of the bass is just amazing. For anyone who thinks gut strings are just for thumping, check this stuff out.

mark
 
#327
I'm discovering some of the pitfalls of the guts. Tuning is the big one. I had a sax/bass duet gig last night in downtown Pittsburgh. Pittsburgh is surrounded by rivers and from May through September, the downtown area is just about always extremely humid.

The gig was a no amp, mic only gig so I didn't have my usual bag of stuff with me. I grabbed my RE-20 and a little tuner on my way out of the door. So I when get to this place, they don't have the air conditioning on and it was hot and very humid and it gets hotter as we play and more people come in. My strings were going every which way. Notes weren't in the same place on the fingerboard from second to second. I'm tuning between every tune. Forget open strings. In the middle of the first set, my tuner's batteries died and, of course, my extras are in my bag of stuff that accompanies my amp rig which I don't have with me because it was a no amp gig. So I'm left with a bass thats pitch was going up and down like a toy boat in the surf and no reference.

It was a REAL challenge.

I LIKE challenges although this one will take some getting used to. Despite my lurid description of the conditions, the gig went really well and I still had a blast. The sound of the bass is just so seductive that I can deal with a few pitch issues.

mark
 
#329
calivox said:
The gig was a no amp, mic only gig so I didn't have my usual bag of stuff with me. I grabbed my RE-20 and a little tuner on my way out of the door. So I when get to this place, they don't have the air conditioning on and it was hot and very humid and it gets hotter as we play and more people come in. My strings were going every which way. Notes weren't in the same place on the fingerboard from second to second. I'm tuning between every tune. Forget open strings. In the middle of the first set, my tuner's batteries died and, of course, my extras are in my bag of stuff that accompanies my amp rig which I don't have with me because it was a no amp gig. So I'm left with a bass thats pitch was going up and down like a toy boat in the surf and no reference.

It was a REAL challenge.
Click to expand...

This is the main reason I won't go there, probably ever. With the Dominant/Stark E combo on the newish bass, I've been able to go a month between tunings - and by that I mean not needing to touch the tuners at all for a month, and the bass doesn't budge. In the summer.

No, I'm not kidding.
 
#330
Chris Fitzgerald said:
This is the main reason I won't go there, probably ever. With the Dominant/Stark E combo on the newish bass, I've been able to go a month between tunings - and by that I mean not needing to touch the tuners at all for a month, and the bass doesn't budge. In the summer.

No, I'm not kidding.
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I'm there too. Spiros in stable weather. Solid.


I tried wrapped guts for a minute and staying in tune was one of the main reasons I gave up.
 
#331
I know all about the stability of Spiros. My steel string bass is STILL in tune and I've barely touched it since March.

But fellas, if I could get THE SOUND out of Spirocores, I'd use them again but pitch stability under extreme conditions is not the reason I'm going to go back to them. I love the sound I'm getting now. I love the way they play and where they sit in the mix. If dealing with tuning issues is the cost of getting that sound then I'll just have to pay that price. If I gave up on them because of pitch stability to go back to Spiros, I'd be unbelievably depressed.

Besides, the D and G aren't that bad even under extreme conditions. I have to tweak them occasionally but that's it. It is the wrapped E and A that are the main problems and even then only under extreme conditions. I ordered a Garbo E and an A and if I don't get a handle on the tuning issues, I'll swap out the guts for the Garbos for the summer.

I also ordered a pistoy light D and medium G from Dan Larson. I've been jonesing to check out Dan's pistoy strings so I'm going to give those a shot as well.

mark
 
#332
I'm back to Artone wrapped A. Still with the Garbo E. I really can't decide if I like the lack of sustain of that A-string. It sure feels and sounds good when playing 40s/50s style jazz. It's a great old-school sound. But the combo Garbo E+A plain gut D+G is a great one.

I also tried a really old and dry plain A string which I have been trying to grease up a bit. I put it on today but took it off again after just two minutes. Yuck.
 
#333
calivox said:
Besides, the D and G aren't that bad even under extreme conditions. I have to tweak them occasionally but that's it. It is the wrapped E and A that are the main problems and even then only under extreme conditions.
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I ended up liking worn in spiros under plain gut tops. The tuning was much more stable. Part of that tuning issue is that when the E and or A goes out the tension changes across the whole bass and you start playing whack a mole with tuning on your strings. With solid steels underneath I found the D and G much easier to live with in part because the higher tension low strings held everything more stable. The girth wasn't there with the spiros compared to the wound gut bottoms but with my basses the steel projects the low end a little better anyway.
 
#334
I tried using Spiro bottoms but the change in timbre from gut to steel was too much for my tiny brain to handle. I did order some Garbos for the bottom which should be more stable than the Gamuts. I'm not going to put them on unless I have to though. I'm thinking about switching the steel bass over to gut too (it's a great bass and it has just been sitting in the corner of my practice room since March) and I might put the Garbos on that bass along with a Gamut D/G combo.

The only time I have real problems is when the conditions are really extreme or if they are edging toward extreme and changing. For instance, a stage that started hot and gets hotter as the show progresses or standing near an air conditioning vent. Then I'm tuning between and sometimes DURING tunes. I leave a tuner plugged into the effects out of my Focus and I've gotten good at hitting open strings and tuning during tunes. It's just a new skill that needs to be learned.

Seriously, this is a problem I can deal with. The mids on gut are less pronounced compared to Spiros or any metal string so you have a little more leeway as far as intonation goes before it is fingernails on a blackboard time. A little tuning drift isn't the big deal that it would be with metal strings.

One of the big pluses for me with gut is amplification. With Spiros, my amplified sound was luck of the room. In some rooms it sounded great, others like dog doo. With gut, the amplified sound is close to independent of the room. It sounds mostly the same from room to room. There are subtle differences to be sure but not the giant changes that I had with Spiros or Evahs or Dominants or... I think part of that is I generally don't need the amplifier as loud with gut but also, the frequencies that gut predominate in aren't as obviously sensitive to the room as those of metal strings.

My observations are certainly limited to the types of music I play and the conditions of my gigs. I mostly play jazz gigs with exceptionally good players. Most of the gigs are relatively low volume. There is usually ample sonic space for the guts to be heard. If I were playing in a band with electric guitars and singers and PA systems where the music was loud and relatively dense, I probably wouldn't be using gut strings. But within the musical world that I'm inhabiting, I'm loving the heck out of these strings and, right now at least, I'm willing to put up with little things like my E string drifting a half step during a tune.

mark
 
#337
Mark,
Actually the mix is: Anima E, Garbo A and D and unknown plain gut G. This is on my old plywood. This may not translate well onto your bass.
The bass (still in her bag) sat in the sun for a few minutes while I set up. Each string was about 1/4 tone sharp, so I tuned her. She stayed perfectly in tune until the second hour when she went about 1/2 step sharp, again across all strings.
It was an easy gig to play, none of the stickiness Phil mentioned (although it's possible it would have occurred on a longer gig). I got a nice tone, the bass was easy as could be to play and I had fun. What's not to like? FWIW, the gig was two guitars, sax, drums and me playing standards.

I had the Garbo A and D on the big carved bass but didn't like them as well as the Animas. They felt much thicker and the round winding on the D seemed rougher at 43". The sound also lacked definition on that bass, although it is brighter than the ply. Although the ply is a very dark sounding bass, somehow it just works.
The combination on that bass has that tone that lays under the band rather than cutting through. My two hr gig on Memorial Day, in a light rain, was great as well. The bass sounded great.

I have no idea what the G is, but it feels and sounds great next to the Garbo D. I can't imagine changing a thing on this bass.
 
#338
clink said:
Mark,

I have no idea what the G is, but it feels and sounds great next to the Garbo D. I can't imagine changing a thing on this bass.
Click to expand...


Clink -- If that's the G you got from me, it's a medium-gauge Gamut.

I saw the great Dave Roe play last night with the Don Kelly band at Robert's. I asked him about his set-up and he said it was: Lemur's "European" gut (I guess that's the Efrano brand) on the G&D, and Sensicore perlon-core on the E&A. He said that he likes these because they are flatwound and don't chew up his fingerboard (anyone ever try those?). Also, he uses a Barbera bridge/pickup. He was playing through some non-descript Peavey combo amp. He sounded awesome as usual. Definitely the dark and thumpy amplified gut sound, but you heard every note loud and clear against a pretty loud band. His slap stuff is ridiculous!
 
#340
I have Lyons on mine although I just ordered a pistoy G and D because I want to see what the difference is and to my knowledge no one around here has tried both. Also my G is the oldest string on the bass having been the only survivor of my last attempt at guts which was about 18 months ago and has been on and off the bass at least 4 times. It is starting to fray a little. On the original set, I used a medium D and I've since switched to a light D and my original E and A needed rewound so I bought two new ones and sent the old ones in for rewinding-the new ones are still on the bass.

I'm having one of those days. I pulled the bass with Mittels out today and it, <shudder>, sounded really good.

mark
 
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