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Happy being a "Pocket or Groove"player?

When was the last time you heard someone say "Wow, that bass solo kicked ass!" I'm a pocket player that occasionally steps on a pedal, that's as wild as I get. I get my runs here and there but the best satisfaction is having a tight band. Let the guitarists and keys soak up the glory. I take pride in knowing there is no glory without a tight bottom end.:bassist:

Absolutely - And some can do both - keep a tight bottom end and kick ass, like this one:
 
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Absolutely - And some can do both - keep a tight bottom end and kick ass, like this one:

Just my opinion: playing music is all about getting good sounds outta your bass and also striving to be original. How many times have all of us slapped our ass off in E? Taking a solo is your chance to really speak and do something unique. So many solos are all about slapping which while pyrotechnically impressive gets old real quick.
 
I'll toss this in... Ignore at will...

Decades back in the big club days, my bro played several years with a band & BL/singer that was no-nonsense. If you worked with him, you would follow his rules or be fined or fired. That might sound harsh but it was not....far from it. It was business. They were the top paid club band in the region. They worked 5-6 nights a week and could be booked 52/52 had they wished. They stayed fairly close to that though. There were folks lined up to try to play with that band because of rep and they were the highest paid around. He could replace somebody with one phone call. He didn't play around...wore long sleeve dress shirts but saw him roll em up once....caught the old tattoo the few earn on his forearm which explained a lot about why he was so organized and honest.

Rule: Learn the damn song. Note for note. Play it like you wrote it. You could embellish on stage but that song was not played on stage until it was smooth by his standards. Early Sat morning was rehearsal at club. Multiple songs added/polished every Sat. Didn't learn it was a fine (single event fine, multiple was fired). Late was a fine. No-show was fired. No compromise. They were professional on stage, mingled off stage, and were always on time and held to 45/15, 40/20, whatever the rule of the club contract. They could play anything perfectly as the record. His philosophy was that the popcorn munchers want to hear a song. They do not want to hear you 'try' to play it or butcher it or play something kinda like it. They want to hear the song. They want to sing along with it. They want to dance to it. Solos, knock yourself out 'within the recorded solo's feel'. He focused on being a 100% known quantity to club owners (there were real club owners that knew the club biz back then) because they would hire them in a flash and pay what HE asked, not what the club offered. Club owner KNEW he'd make money because of the band's own crowd of followers from hell. Back then they made bank doing what they did and did it well. That was their living, not a hobby. I remember other musicians bitching about them making over twice what they made. Duh. There's a reason... One thing he told me when I was about 16 and at rehearsal with my big bro, "the secret to being top is making that damn box with all the buttons and poopie behind the bar ring like hell every night. Make it ring, whatever it takes, and you'll always have work." Business. Fun, but still business. They all were paid equally including him. They always had great gear too. No junk. Follow the line, make a bunch of money. Your call.

Times changed, DIU laws changed, club biz changed... That being said, there are still some strong points in the way he ran his band.... I see so many bands today playing one nighters in clubs on Fri or Sat that could use a bit of tutoring from that guy...no, more than a bit...a helluva lot.... I learned a good bit from him by keeping my mouth shut and listening to him.

Enough of my blathering.... Carry on....

Great post. I've played with some groups like that. And I'll add that the classical scene is like that, too. I played six years on upright in a symphony orchestra, and, man, you didn't mess around. I'm talking about really serious stuff. Rehearsals were just as serious as performances. And, many of those cats took that attitude out on the weekends playing jazz, too, and rock or blues, including me. I'm glad I got to experience that kind of discipline.

Recently I played a little country set with some guys. We had a fill-in violinist who I had never met before. Nice gal and great fiddle chops. I sensed that she was more than we saw or heard. When I got to talk to her some, sure nuff...music major, classically trained in performing with classical groups. And not aloof about it either. Just really nice. She listened well, too, and could play the sweetest country/bluegrass licks you could ever want. Totally pro.
 
Slap has reached the level of non-stop percussive masturbation on bass now with many players...
While I respect the skill some have developed to take 'Grahamism' to much higher levels, it gets old real quick...

I agree... basing your whole bass style on slap is ridiculous. Only a few famous guys have been able to pull that off, but they are the exception. Marcus slaps constantly, but uses it musically... that's not true for most guys. Interesting thing, when I was at Berklee in early 2000's, nobody slapped as a constant thing. There was one instructor who taught labs in playing funk styles (both finger and slap), but it was always in the context of being musical; it was/is a means not an end. I'd much rather hear a guy take a solo playing notes with harmonic content, than take a slap bass solo. All the rat-a-tat-tat gets old, fast.
 
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I agree... basing your whole bass style on slap is ridiculous. Only a few famous guys have been able to pull that off, but they are the exception. Marcus slaps constantly, but uses it musically... that's not true for most guys. Interesting thing, when I was at Berklee in early 2000's, nobody slapped as a constant thing. There was one instructor who taught labs in playing funk styles (both finger and slap), but it was always in the context of being musical; it was/is a means not an end. I'd much rather hear a guy take a solo playing notes with harmonic content, than take a slap bass solo. All the rat-a-tat-tat gets old, fast.

Les Claypool has his own way of playing that is a bit insane but it works for "him".
Even though it is a bit busy, the bass is not the focal point in his music, it just works... He is a bit singular in that...

There are a lot of players out there that think their steady barrage sounds good...but it doesn't...

I would much rather listen to badasses like Willie, Pops (RIP), etc..... Pops Popwell could play some killer pocket and fire off one single subdued thump or snap in the perfect spot at the perfect time... especially when Carlton was with the Crusaders too... Dayum.

With some folks, as they get closer and closer to mondo badass status, the simpler they play... Interesting...
Might be a lesson in that....

"Thanks for coming out tonight, folks. That last tune was a bass solo during Mustang Sally. Coming up, we have a bass solo during Sweet Corn Alibaba, and then a bass solo during Spokane. After the break will be bass solos during our entire country set... " One can substitute guitar, drums, keys, HARP, tambourine, etc. for bass too... Especially harp and tambourine...and harp...



Harp too...
 
Victor Wooten and Marcus Miller are amazing bassists, and I have no desire to play like them.

Me neither. I don't try to play like anyone else. Oh, I may play like someone else when doing a cover tune for the sake of doing it. But, on my own, I enjoy making use of the things I do best, with my own ideas. Although, I have learned from others. But mainly I just respect them for what they are.

EDIT: not trying to say that it's wrong to study others or to want to play like them.

Oh, and I do covet some of their tones, though.
 
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In the following video of an easy (cheesy) Pop , the bass player does NOT play any solo, but I doubt that nowadays I have enough technique to follow the bass player.

FLR project are: stephan grawe (keys) sebi friebe (bass) sven zumbrock (drums)





yeah, I only watched part of the first one. He's got great technique- for a guitar player. He's playing bass like a regular guitar; as soon as I hear that, I have to say, I just tune out.

That technique works for me sparingly, as accent, but it doesn't really work for me overall, and it especially is distracting when done under the verse vocals as he does here. If I wanted to play that, I'd play a guitar. That's kind of the definition of no groove.
 
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This guy. This is who I wanna be in my band.
 
yeah, I only watched part of the first one. He's got great technique- for a guitar player. He's playing bass like a regular guitar; as soon as I hear that, I have to say, I just tune out.

That technique works for me sparingly, as accent, but it doesn't really work for me overall, and it especially is distracting when done under the verse vocals as he does here. If I wanted to play that, I'd play a guitar. That's kind of the definition of no groove.

I wholeheartedly disagree. In the context of this remake, he is playing exactly how he needs to play to complement and fill the sonic landscape. I could listen to this all day, AND id rather hear this version (which is really hip, funky and grooving) over the original version, which really IS cheesy. This kind of bass playing is an extension of what guys like Jaco and Francis Rocco Prestia did/do.
 
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I wholeheartedly disagree. In the context of this remake, he is playing exactly how he needs to play to complement and fill the sonic landscape. I could listen to this all day, AND id rather hear this version (which is really hip, funky and grooving) over the original version, which really IS cheesy. This kind of bass playing is an extension of what guys like Jaco and Francis Rocco Prestia did/do.

I agree with you, to a point. I was turned off, and turned it off, when he started playing complicated lead lines under the verse. So I don't know what he might have done to redeem himself after that. It's an extension, sure, in the sense that he's taking what was done tastefully by earlier players and just ramrodding it through where it never used to go.

Rocco did a lot of fast playing, Jaco did too, but they didn't interfere with the musicality under the verse the way that did, for me. What is Hip is nothing but fast, staccato notes, but they are precise, they are mostly roots, and the accents he plays are like little stabs that accent the syncopation in the horn parts just where they should.

Now, music is very subjective. What I like won't be the same as what you like, so we can respectfully disagree on that. There's no doubt this is a very technically proficient player. And we definitely agree that the original of this song is way worse.