"When was the last time you heard someone say "Wow, that bass solo kicked ass!"
Tons....
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Tons....
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Happy being a "Pocket or Groove"player?
- Thread starter pedulla-2007
- Start date
I am a solid overplayer with virtually no self control and a complete inability to hold back. And I like things just the way they are.
When was the last time you heard someone say "Wow, that bass solo kicked ass!" I'm a pocket player that occasionally steps on a pedal, that's as wild as I get. I get my runs here and there but the best satisfaction is having a tight band. Let the guitarists and keys soak up the glory. I take pride in knowing there is no glory without a tight bottom end.
I'm mostly with you: I don't care if I'm never asked to solo. In most situations, exactly no one in the audience will care if the bassist never solos.
That said, there are plenty of exceptions. Jazz and jam bands are obvious examples, but a year ago I got a gig with an all-original blues-rock trio and the bandleader asks me to solo a couple/few times a gig (the drummer, too).
Prior to that I was in a classic rock/R&B cover band, but that band asked me to solo a couple times per night: typically during their extended vamps in "Play That Funky Music" and "Standing on Shaky Ground". So, I had to suck it up and deliver. I'd often go with the same framework (different for each song) -- quoting stuff like the Jungle Boogie riff in one, the Popeye theme in the other. I figured the audience would appreciate that more than noodling, or blazing chops (which I don't have).
TL;DR: Groove/support playing should be every bassist's first priority, but soloing can sometimes be requested or even required for a gig. Nothing wrong with making yourself more marketable, even if you don't particularly care for soloing.
It's not always ego. Sometimes it's boredom. I have a few songs in an Americana-flavored band that basically just require fast 1-5 changes and I sometimes catch myself playing that stuff with more syncopation and notes than are needed. I still sneak it in now and then as long as nobody notices (no one in that band would complain even if I played like that all night long) and it doesn't mess up the song, but I recognize that it's not the way it's traditionally played and those little embellishments need to be occasional, not constant. Goes back to the idea that just because you can do it does not mean it needs to be done.
So I find myself holding back, but it's not the most fun thing in the world to play 1-5-8 all night. I know someone will come along and say they've made a great living at it for however many years. I think if I were being paid well for it I would find a way to be very content doing this
I'm a little like you. When playing with the country guys on something like Working Man's Blues I might syncopate for a measure or so just to spice it for a moment. Or I might throw in a run at a tasty time on a chord change. Nothing major, just something to knock the dust off my fingers. They key is to do it at the right time and not too often or for too long.
On other songs, no matter what genre, I think about articulation as I play. Even the simplest line can be interesting when I concentrate on how I'm saying it. And surprisingly, even on a ballad, there are always opportunities to throw a lick in. But it only works if you have good judgement on when and what kind of lick. Oh, sometimes I hit a wanker, but at least then I just learned to not try that again.
I remember recently when someone wanted to do He Stopped Loving Her Today. Oh dear me, dread of dreads, I hate playing that. But it was thinking like I said above that kept me alive through that thing. I survived and actually made it interesting for myself without anyone else even noticing.
As for grooving. Yeah, like Jamerson.
- Apr 1, 2000
- 17,409
- 9,868
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- Endorsing Artist: Roscoe Guitars, DR Strings, Aguilar Amplification
Last time I played a solo.
Like Marcus says "who says you get to choose? You should be able to lay down the baddest groove AND play the meanest solo."
Like Marcus says "who says you get to choose? You should be able to lay down the baddest groove AND play the meanest solo."
100%
I dont even know why this is a discussion, to be honest.
100%
I dont even know why this is a discussion, to be honest.
I like to come up with interesting parts, and (hopefully), pleasing melodic lines, but I don't feel very comfortable with full-on solos, nor do I feel the need to do them. I don't even like listening to solos in music very much. I prefer someone who can work impressive chops and lines into the actual song and make it fit and sound natural and seamless, ala Ryan Martinie in Soften the Glare.
Passinwind
I know nothing.
- Dec 3, 2003
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- Designer/Toaster Tech @ Passinwind Electronics
Word. Not soloing was absolutely a non-option in many of my gigs over the last 15 or so years. And I was often expected to do so on tunes I'd never played before, or at places in the chart where I wouldn't necessarily be expecting my number to get called.
One who spent a few months or years shedding a particular tune and wanted to take it public?
I think the catch 22 here is that a player who has the interest to learn how to solo, early in his development, will then be able to after X years because he works on it. So, that person wanted those skills at the outset, and eventually can do so after a while. THAT is the kind of player who requests a solo. Probably, they also play styles and do gigs that lend themselves to bass solos. Jazz, blues, maybe funk.... thus.....classic rock, probably not, wedding band during the dance set, not unless the guy has wicked slap chops and they give him a spot, but not typical, wedding band during the cocktail set, maybe (but likely not.. depends on the band), backing a singer songwriter at a music festival, no. I think I made my point. Developing the ability to solo is a huge endeavor, especially if you want to play in a jazz style, in fact that's a life-long journey/effort. The learning and development in the jazz idiom never ends. Of course, a well rounded bass player who has studied jazz at the core, can play a funk/dance set for a wedding, or a in a classic rock band, or in a pit orchestra, so it's natural for that guy to get on the funk gig and say, "Hey, can I take a solo on this one?".... because he can.
Nothing wrong with slipping out of the pocket to do a solo.
That being said, every song doesn't call for a solo, and for damn sure, the entire song is not a solo.
I've played on stage with folks that think otherwise and it got old quick, fast, and in a hurry....
Not even speaking of a particular instrument either....
Ensemble...
NOT 'Buford the Virtuoso Tambourinist and some other guys....'
That being said, every song doesn't call for a solo, and for damn sure, the entire song is not a solo.
I've played on stage with folks that think otherwise and it got old quick, fast, and in a hurry....
Not even speaking of a particular instrument either....
Ensemble...
NOT 'Buford the Virtuoso Tambourinist and some other guys....'
Less is more.
It seems to me all the greatest musicians have an intuitive feel to be concise, i.e. play the least notes but the perfect ones, and then give enough space to let it speak for itself. It's non-intuitive and truly hard to learn this. I guess it's the same mentality behind writing a great speech.
The only exception is that there is NEVER enough cowbell.
It seems to me all the greatest musicians have an intuitive feel to be concise, i.e. play the least notes but the perfect ones, and then give enough space to let it speak for itself. It's non-intuitive and truly hard to learn this. I guess it's the same mentality behind writing a great speech.
The only exception is that there is NEVER enough cowbell.
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You may be in the wrong band if that's the overwhelming feeling...Just a thought. I do understand the feeling, but, for me, that usually meant I was in the wrong band and was soon looking for more interesting musicians to be in a band with. Of course, if it's your income and you need the gig...it is what it is...LOLIt's not always ego. Sometimes it's boredom. I have a few songs in an Americana-flavored band that basically just require fast 1-5 changes and I sometimes catch myself playing that stuff with more syncopation and notes than are needed. I still sneak it in now and then as long as nobody notices (no one in that band would complain even if I played like that all night long) and it doesn't mess up the song, but I recognize that it's not the way it's traditionally played and those little embellishments need to be occasional, not constant. Goes back to the idea that just because you can do it does not mean it needs to be done.
So I find myself holding back, but it's not the most fun thing in the world to play 1-5-8 all night. I know someone will come along and say they've made a great living at it for however many years. I think if I were being paid well for it I would find a way to be very content doing this
I'll toss this in... Ignore at will...
Decades back in the big club days, my bro played several years with a band & BL/singer that was no-nonsense. If you worked with him, you would follow his rules or be fined or fired. That might sound harsh but it was not....far from it. It was business. They were the top paid club band in the region. They worked 5-6 nights a week and could be booked 52/52 had they wished. They stayed fairly close to that though. There were folks lined up to try to play with that band because of rep and they were the highest paid around. He could replace somebody with one phone call. He didn't play around...wore long sleeve dress shirts but saw him roll em up once....caught the old tattoo the few earn on his forearm which explained a lot about why he was so organized and honest.
Rule: Learn the damn song. Note for note. Play it like you wrote it. You could embellish on stage but that song was not played on stage until it was smooth by his standards. Early Sat morning was rehearsal at club. Multiple songs added/polished every Sat. Didn't learn it was a fine (single event fine, multiple was fired). Late was a fine. No-show was fired. No compromise. They were professional on stage, mingled off stage, and were always on time and held to 45/15, 40/20, whatever the rule of the club contract. They could play anything perfectly as the record. His philosophy was that the popcorn munchers want to hear a song. They do not want to hear you 'try' to play it or butcher it or play something kinda like it. They want to hear the song. They want to sing along with it. They want to dance to it. Solos, knock yourself out 'within the recorded solo's feel'. He focused on being a 100% known quantity to club owners (there were real club owners that knew the club biz back then) because they would hire them in a flash and pay what HE asked, not what the club offered. Club owner KNEW he'd make money because of the band's own crowd of followers from hell. Back then they made bank doing what they did and did it well. That was their living, not a hobby. I remember other musicians bitching about them making over twice what they made. Duh. There's a reason... One thing he told me when I was about 16 and at rehearsal with my big bro, "the secret to being top is making that damn box with all the buttons and poopie behind the bar ring like hell every night. Make it ring, whatever it takes, and you'll always have work." Business. Fun, but still business. They all were paid equally including him. They always had great gear too. No junk. Follow the line, make a bunch of money. Your call.
Times changed, DIU laws changed, club biz changed... That being said, there are still some strong points in the way he ran his band.... I see so many bands today playing one nighters in clubs on Fri or Sat that could use a bit of tutoring from that guy...no, more than a bit...a helluva lot.... I learned a good bit from him by keeping my mouth shut and listening to him.
Enough of my blathering.... Carry on....
Decades back in the big club days, my bro played several years with a band & BL/singer that was no-nonsense. If you worked with him, you would follow his rules or be fined or fired. That might sound harsh but it was not....far from it. It was business. They were the top paid club band in the region. They worked 5-6 nights a week and could be booked 52/52 had they wished. They stayed fairly close to that though. There were folks lined up to try to play with that band because of rep and they were the highest paid around. He could replace somebody with one phone call. He didn't play around...wore long sleeve dress shirts but saw him roll em up once....caught the old tattoo the few earn on his forearm which explained a lot about why he was so organized and honest.
Rule: Learn the damn song. Note for note. Play it like you wrote it. You could embellish on stage but that song was not played on stage until it was smooth by his standards. Early Sat morning was rehearsal at club. Multiple songs added/polished every Sat. Didn't learn it was a fine (single event fine, multiple was fired). Late was a fine. No-show was fired. No compromise. They were professional on stage, mingled off stage, and were always on time and held to 45/15, 40/20, whatever the rule of the club contract. They could play anything perfectly as the record. His philosophy was that the popcorn munchers want to hear a song. They do not want to hear you 'try' to play it or butcher it or play something kinda like it. They want to hear the song. They want to sing along with it. They want to dance to it. Solos, knock yourself out 'within the recorded solo's feel'. He focused on being a 100% known quantity to club owners (there were real club owners that knew the club biz back then) because they would hire them in a flash and pay what HE asked, not what the club offered. Club owner KNEW he'd make money because of the band's own crowd of followers from hell. Back then they made bank doing what they did and did it well. That was their living, not a hobby. I remember other musicians bitching about them making over twice what they made. Duh. There's a reason... One thing he told me when I was about 16 and at rehearsal with my big bro, "the secret to being top is making that damn box with all the buttons and poopie behind the bar ring like hell every night. Make it ring, whatever it takes, and you'll always have work." Business. Fun, but still business. They all were paid equally including him. They always had great gear too. No junk. Follow the line, make a bunch of money. Your call.
Times changed, DIU laws changed, club biz changed... That being said, there are still some strong points in the way he ran his band.... I see so many bands today playing one nighters in clubs on Fri or Sat that could use a bit of tutoring from that guy...no, more than a bit...a helluva lot.... I learned a good bit from him by keeping my mouth shut and listening to him.
Enough of my blathering.... Carry on....
Absolutely. I hate that when it happens, especially since you don't need to do that with electric instruments. We can just kick on a pedal and we're good. Don't stop comping, you're not getting in our way.
As a bass player I am fine not doing a solo--maybe a fill or something here or there in some contexts, but that would be an exception.
I'd rather play the bass riff or play to the chords.
As a guitar player I prefer rhythm-if I was a guitar player in a band I'd have no problem with the other guitarist playing most of the solos-if we made albums, give me one an album. Live give me 2 or 3, depending on who long we're playing for.
I've always been more into being part of the rhythm section that way.
I'd rather play the bass riff or play to the chords.
As a guitar player I prefer rhythm-if I was a guitar player in a band I'd have no problem with the other guitarist playing most of the solos-if we made albums, give me one an album. Live give me 2 or 3, depending on who long we're playing for.
I've always been more into being part of the rhythm section that way.
