Has anyone seen the movie Zeitgeist?

[unclekebm]

I saw the first third - the section on religion. Then I promptly turned it off.

The 'film' (if you can call it that) is the biggest load of rubbish I've ever seen passed off as a documentary. At no point during ANY of the religion section of the film did they come close to presenting an actual fact. They fabricated pretty well every piece of 'information' presented in that part of the film. Some of the claims were downright ludicrous.

I started a thread on this film about 8 months ago and the replies were interesting. It was actually quite sad to see the number of people who honestly believed the stupidity presented in the movie.

are you old enough to know the "actual fact"? that would make you thousands of years old...

personally I think "Zeitgeist" and "actual fact" are both full of shee-ite

the truth is...the truth if you look around,
tell me religion doesn't use "god" and "jesus" to control people
tell me wars aren't purposely started to make $$
tell me the people of the US aren't purposely kept pre-occupied, sick, fat and dumbed down...

 

[CBRStingray]

are you old enough to know the "actual fact"? that would make you thousands of years old...

personally I think "Zeitgeist" and "actual fact" are both full of shee-ite

the truth is...the truth if you look around,
tell me religion doesn't use "god" and "jesus" to control people
tell me wars aren't purposely started to make $$
tell me the people of the US aren't purposely kept pre-occupied, sick, fat and dumbed down...

Let me give you a very simple example of what I mean when I say the film made ludicrous claims that aren't even close to factual.

The film claims that the story of Jesus and Horus are similar - each had 12 disciples, each had an immaculate conception, each walked on water, each was baptised at age 30, etc, etc. Had the film makers done ANY research that would have seen that none of those similarities exist in the stories. The story of Horus is completely unlike the story as it's represented in the film. Whether or not either story is true is irrelevant. The point is that they are two VERY different stories, but the film makers completely lied about one of them in order to get you to believe their message.

 

[deggial]

Disco_Gee did not claim to know the "actual fact" (sic), he merely claimed that Zeitgeist does not present any actual facts to prove its point.

For instance, religion has indeed played an integral part as an enforcer of social norms and cultural gatekeeper who filters outside influences in most societies. And it is indeed true that most widespread religions have a lot in common. However, Zeitgeist fails to prove that point, as many of its claims on the similarities between the Egyptial religion and christianity are merely made up by the author and are not substantiated by facts.

 

[CBRStingray]

Disco_Gee did not claim to know the "actual fact" (sic), he merely claimed that Zeitgeist does not present any actual facts to prove its point.

For instance, religion has indeed played an integral part as an enforcer of social norms and cultural gatekeeper who filters outside influences in most societies. And it is indeed true that most widespread religions have a lot in common. However, Zeitgeist fails to prove that point, as many of its claims on the similarities between the Egyptial religion and christianity are merely made up by the author and are not substantiated by facts.

Precisely.

 

[unclekebm]

Let me give you a very simple example of what I mean when I say the film made ludicrous claims that aren't even close to factual.

The film claims that the story of Jesus and Horus are similar - each had 12 disciples, each had an immaculate conception, each walked on water, each was baptised at age 30, etc, etc. Had the film makers done ANY research that would have seen that none of those similarities exist in the stories. The story of Horus is completely unlike the story as it's represented in the film. Whether or not either story is true is irrelevant. The point is that they are two VERY different stories, but the film makers completely lied about one of them in order to get you to believe their message.

I agree...

I can just picture back in the day when Jesus or Nichiren Daishonin or anyone else who passionately believed their truth, were preaching their words of wisdom,
people, especially mainstream followers were probably arguing the same stuff, IE lies, no factual evidence, etc.

although I don't think anyone can argue that Zeitgeist is very one sided...but then again so is "Christianity", "Mormon-ism"? etc...dogma anyone?

cheers

 

[jugoziithouu]

You can still learn from fictional stories.
The problem is when people kill and take away natural liberties in name of them...


Theres no need for all that info to take religion for what it is, forget the irrelevant (if he existed, i things happened blah blah), ignore the bad (killing ppl who work in the sabbath etc etc) and take advantage of the good! (teachings, quotes etc)
ALWAYS KEEP A CRITICAL MATURE MIND

 

[Masher88]

I'm a bit confused here, as I cannot find any section labeled as friends' websites, general links or anything similar. Unless you mean the Google Ads in the left, that are automatically generated and the site's author has no control over them (in the same fashion as irrelevant Google Ads appear in TB sometimes).

In any case, both Zeitgeist (in their website) and the site above cite their sources, so it's easy for someone to follow up their research and make up his own mind.


PS. As far as referencing web pages, this is generally acceptable in academia and nothing wrong with it most of the time. The problem is that sometimes people tend to cite inappropriate, non-primary sources, such as web pages that do not contain original work (for instance, Wikipedia).

If those links are randomly generated Google ads, then I stand corrected..but my point still remains...no one knows what this websites author's credentials are. He could be just another random nut spouting false "truths" to try to spin the story his way....or he could be a professor at Oxford
....I don't know...oh wait...yes I do...he has an "About the Author" page...
Exceprt:
"As I said earlier, my name is Edward L Winston, I am a 20-something software engineer with an affinity for astronomy, history, politics, and crazy theories. While I do have a college education, it was not at Yale or anything like that, just some community college and some university. I have never belonged to a rich family, in fact mine is working-class all the way and I am one of the first with a college education.

So yeah...no real credentials...pretty much the same qualifications as I have...but i am not starting websites that try to tear apart other peoples works.

The Internet scares me...not for what it is, but for the fact that people think that because it is written down, that makes it true...wait, kinda like organized religion..... ugh

 

[deggial]

The Internet scares me...not for what it is, but for the fact that people think that because it is written down, that makes it true...wait, kinda like organized religion..... ugh

I agree with you on this. I've seen many well educated people who have developed the reflex to question anything they read on mainstream media and understand how, for instance, a newspaper can be affiliated with a certain political party, yet they tend to be more gullible with what they read on the Internet, especially if the information comes from an alleged independent source. In that respect, I think that our societies have still not adapted to the sensible use of the Web as an information hub.

 

[Philbiker]

If those links are randomly generated Google ads, then I stand corrected..but my point still remains...no one knows what this websites author's credentials are. He could be just another random nut spouting false "truths" to try to spin the story his way....or he could be a professor at Oxford
....I don't know...oh wait...yes I do...he has an "About the Author" page...
Exceprt:
"As I said earlier, my name is Edward L Winston, I am a 20-something software engineer with an affinity for astronomy, history, politics, and crazy theories. While I do have a college education, it was not at Yale or anything like that, just some community college and some university. I have never belonged to a rich family, in fact mine is working-class all the way and I am one of the first with a college education.

So yeah...no real credentials...pretty much the same qualifications as I have...but i am not starting websites that try to tear apart other peoples works.

Never mind the actual content of the page which completely disembowels the Zeitgeist insanity. Anybody with basic research skills could have put up that site destroying the stupid Zeitgeist nonsense. His research is good. The Zeitgeist authors' research is bull-ess.

[Invalid or Expired Link Removed] People seem to think that there's always an agenda and there is little or no difference between fact and opinion. Fact: Zeitgeist is false and full of blatant lies and wrong qotes.

It is not the case that every opinion and every thought has validity and we should consider both sides. Completely insane opinions such as those expounded in the Zeitgeist trash, Holocaust denial, 911 Truth, JFK conspiracy nonsense etc, deserve to be derided and debunked. It's an intellectual disservice to yourself to offer respect to both sides of "issues" like these.

 

[mfgl]

Its no less one sided or non factual then your average Michael Moore "documentary". Its entertaining and thought provoking...meaning it gives you things to think about, i wouldnt take it as truth at all.

 

[jrthebassguy]

I'm in the minority here, but I think it was a pretty good album. Billy Corgan is a great songwriter.




(Ok, so I haven't seen the movie).

 

[unclekebm]

It is not the case that every opinion and every thought has validity and we should consider both sides. Completely insane opinions such as those expounded in the Zeitgeist trash, Holocaust denial, 911 Truth, JFK conspiracy nonsense etc, deserve to be derided and debunked. It's an intellectual disservice to yourself to offer respect to both sides of "issues" like these.

Bull!

being "Intellectual" would be to consider and respect everyone, then make your own conclusion,
as well as just opening up and seeing truth around us everyday, not just reading about it or watching it...
If you're using FOX or CNN as your main source of info. then you to, are being duped into a "one sided" truth

 

[unclekebm]

Its no less one sided or non factual then your average Michael Moore "documentary". Its entertaining and thought provoking...meaning it gives you things to think about, i wouldnt take it as truth at all.

have you seen SIcko, then looked at reality?
It maybe one sided but it's true...
look into the Health Care / Insurance system of the USA and you'll see...don't just "read" about it, go see for yourself, dig around...

 

[mvw356]

i watched it and thought it was interesting.
i'm no specialist on the origins of religion by any means, but i remember that richard dawkins brought up similar points to the horus story being similar to what is in the bible. he gave more examples to show the similarity between jesus' story and other religions. i don't know if it's true what he wrote, but considering that there are several examples to support this claim, there must be an element of truth in it.

 

[AlphaMale]

The Internet scares me...not for what it is, but for the fact that people think that because it is written down, that makes it true...wait, kinda like organized religion..... ugh

Or more specifically youtube videos.

Well its not exactly about just being on the internet. We learned in logic class that people love the emotion of pretty much being in rebellious. It's often easier for someone to believe something bad about someone, a group, or idea than it is to believe something good about it. If I posted links about vegetarianism, driving hybrid cars, or other ways to sacrifice to help people. People would simply say "anyone could have written that, how do I know its true." But if I wrote articles on how Peta is Evil, vegetarianism is wrong, or The Truth about Hybrid cars, or How they are worse for the environment many many people would lose their incredulity.

Conspiracy theories in general, and the "n% of people doubt the story" claims in particular, also appeal to a sense of rebellion in people.

As Wikipedia puts it, "a rebellion is, in the most general sense, a refusal to accept authority."

People don't want to be sheeps who are patronized by authority and told what they have to do and how they have to think. People usually distrust authorities and many believe that authorities are selfish and abuse people for their own benefit. This is an extremely fertile ground for conspiracy theories.

This is so ingrained in people that a sentence like "the official story" has basically become a synonym for "a coverup/lie". Whenever "the official story" is mentioned, it immediately makes people think that it's some kind of coverup, something not true.

Conspiracy theorists are masters at abusing this psychological phenomenon for their advantage. They basically insinuate that "if you believe the official story then you are gullible because you are being lied to". They want to make it feel that doubting the original story is a sign of intelligence and logical thinking. However, believing a conspiracy theory usually shows, quite ironically, a great lack of logical thinking.

There's been a huge anti-mainstream trend recently. Mainstream music, news, and movies are for idiots, while Independent news, music, and movies are for intellectuals. Interesting trend indeed. I guess everyone is insecure about their own intelligence.

 

[AlphaMale]

i watched it and thought it was interesting.
i'm no specialist on the origins of religion by any means, but i remember that richard dawkins brought up similar points to the horus story being similar to what is in the bible. he gave more examples to show the similarity between jesus' story and other religions. i don't know if it's true what he wrote, but considering that there are several examples to support this claim, there must be an element of truth in it.

Couldn't they all be based off a lie?
I really could say the same thing about Jesus. Now keep in mind, I'm an atheist, but I could use the same logic and claim "many people say that Jesus is the son of god, so it must be true some truth to it." I've also heard about it in a movie narrated by Sam Harris, but I am pretty certain its untrue.

 

[mvw356]

Couldn't they all be based off a lie?
I really could say the same thing about Jesus. Now keep in mind, I'm an atheist, but I could use the same logic and claim "many people say that Jesus is the son of god, so it must be true some truth to it." I've also heard about it in a movie narrated by Sam Harris, but I am pretty certain its untrue.

possibly yes (and that includes whatever is written in the bible)

the thing is, i have a tendency to find scientific scholars more believable than anything else out there. of course, scientific scholars could still be wrong, so who knows what is true and what isn't.

 

[Visirale]

I like Zeitgeist because it gives me a good litmus test to judge people by. If someone tells me they like the movie, then I know that I should probably stop talking to them and that they are not someone I would enjoy spending time with. For that, I must think the writers and producers of Zeitgeist, I don't know where I'd be without it.

 

[Masher88]

I like Zeitgeist because it gives me a good litmus test to judge people by. If someone tells me they like the movie, then I know that I should probably stop talking to them and that they are not someone I would enjoy spending time with. For that, I must think the writers and producers of Zeitgeist, I don't know where I'd be without it.

Yeah, I do the same thing, but I use the movie "Ernest Goes to Camp"

 

[12bass]

Hrmm.... not sure about using Zeitgeist as a litmus test. It pleases me to see people engage in questioning what they've been told. If watching such films helps that along, that's a good thing, IMO. But I certainly wouldn't want the questioning to stop there, and would hope that a search for better answers would take place afterwards.