Having issues with our drummer

[kaleel2g]

His last name is spelled .Paak. Paak is a family name, but he told an interviewer that he put the dot there to remind himself of how important it is as a musician to focus on detail. Sure works for him. He's a phenomenal drummer.

Whatever his name is, I watched his tiny desk concert. He can drum and rap/ sing at the same time.

 

[Michael Stanley 2112]

In the cover band I'm in, we had a similar issue.

Myself and one other guy partnered up and to his credit, he's been almost as stalwart as I.

The premise was: if we're going to be a cover band, we don't want to play obscure songs, but we don't want to play the same 45 songs every moron and his idiot brother plays. We wanted to keep the set list somewhat fluid based upon songs to which the audience seems to respond (When you think: "AC/DC", don't think "Shook Me All Night Long". Think: "Problem Child" or "Whole Lotta Rosie" or "Beatin' Around The Bush")

Also, no genre is off-limits, but we want to play any "off-genre" songs in our style.

Anyway, we recently went through a thing with a guitar player (Quelle suprise!).

We told him what our plan was, right from the start and he agreed, enthusiastically.

He kept suggesting lots of songs we never had any intention of playing and songs which were the same old garbage one could hear on any given day on classic rock radio stations.

We gave up trying to talk him out of the most blatantly boring songs and started presenting our arrangements. He hated everything we were doing and finally just walked out (rather unceremoniously).

Problem solved.

 

[pepj]

I'd do it like that because I have done it like that and as it turns out club owners usually treat individuals as individuals and if you always deliver and keep butts in seats...they really don't care who's relationship is what with who and it's not your job to unleash the details of what's happening to the world. Pretty stupid move, actually.

I've never had the time to mess around with someone elses issues in a band...and if they are going to unleash their problems and b.s. on bandmates then the only real option is to see where you can capitalize on it. Because you certainly aren't going to change someone else and they may have a bunch of dates booked that is essentially free money. Take it and also do something fulfilling that also pays. Or...drop it in the search for the magical "one" band where everything always works out that may never come along...lose all that money because you want to teach an adult infant a lesson..and then still sit there bandless making no connections and headway.

If i was a booker and band wasn't working, why would I want the same guys back in another band.
They would have to prove themselves in a new band.

 

[J33]

If i was a booker and band wasn't working, why would I want the same guys back in another band.
They would have to prove themselves in a new band.

Because people can do more than one thing and just because there is a private issue in a band..doesn't mean the booking agent is or needs to be aware of it. They're not sitting making phone calls everyday to make sure all the bands they book aren't suffering from internal strife. The problem is the band leader wanting full control in this scenario...not the club owners forcing them to change a set list that isn't working. The issues O.P. brought up are all internal. Just because a band doesn't work in a room...you're going to blacklist everybody in the band? O.k. You'd be looking for a new job real quick.

"They would have to prove themselves in another band". Why? If you already have a relationship with the club, it's booking agent and it's sound people...they would already know you're good stuff so why would they suddenly pretend they don't know who you are if you show up in another booked band that they decided was good for the club to entertain there in the first place? Makes no sense. This is how I got a majority of the shows on great nights for "new" bands I was in. We didn't have to do Wednesdays and Thursdays...we got booked to the weekend bills without having to wait in line because they knew me and some of the other people playing.. for a decade plus when we were all cutting our teeth.. and knew I was always easy to work with, professional, always on time and treated the sound people really well...and tipped them well at the end of the night. All the bands we came from initially all broke up for some reason or another. So...that means we were all supposed to be blacklisted from the clubs? Yeah...no.

 

[two fingers]

Just one question (and I didn't read the whole thread to see if you answered it.)

Did he state outloud that he was staying a "classic funk and r&b" band from the beginning? If so, anyone trying to change that now it to blame here.

That said, if all of you want to go another direction, and you can find a drummer, go for it. (I would be surprised if the guitar player went with you l.)

 

[LBS-bass]

He basically wants to play old poopie that only other funk musicians really know. We're all ok with some of that, but realize it's we have to add newer stuff too if we want to get gigs.

It sounds then like he's the one that's stuck in the mindset of "people only want to hear the same old stuff." There's definitely a difference of opinion about direction and marketing here and it would be good (IMO) for the band to entertain the idea of trying newer stuff, as long as the newer stuff has audience appeal. Tons of deep cuts seldom work, but the occasional deep cut can emphasize your "wow factor" if the song is done well and still not so obscure as to be unrecognizable to all but a few.

So I do still think you all need to talk about this, but bear one thing in mind as you do. I mentioned this in a different thread about a different band yesterday. Most musicians in bands are not very good at marketing; they think they know what will work and gravitate toward doing the same old stuff because it doesn't feel risky, but in doing so they lose the opportunity to give the audience an experience they will remember and come back for. There are tons of bands in the middle of the pack and that's not where a successful band wants to be.

But, here's the thing. When you get someone in the band who is assuming a leadership role and isn't good at marketing, it's going to be difficult to get that person to change. He thinks he knows best, others may disagree, but it may not be easy to convince him to try anything new. In that case you and the rest will have to decide if this is the hill you want to die on. It sounds like you'd be happier starting a new band that would be interested in fresher material.

A note about horns; you don't need to have horns to play horn parts. I have a three piece instrumental trio and the guitarist and I cover horn parts all the time. But you do need to be creative with your instrumentation in order to do it. If someone's insisting the guitarist only play the funk chops the original guitarist plays, that doesn't give him room to cover what's missing, so yeah, that's a problem.

Wishing you good luck sorting this out.

 

[kaleel2g]

It sounds then like he's the one that's stuck in the mindset of "people only want to hear the same old stuff." There's definitely a difference of opinion about direction and marketing here and it would be good (IMO) for the band to entertain the idea of trying newer stuff, as long as the newer stuff has audience appeal. Tons of deep cuts seldom work, but the occasional deep cut can emphasize your "wow factor" if the song is done well and still not so obscure as to be unrecognizable to all but a few.

So I do still think you all need to talk about this, but bear one thing in mind as you do. I mentioned this in a different thread about a different band yesterday. Most musicians in bands are not very good at marketing; they think they know what will work and gravitate toward doing the same old stuff because it doesn't feel risky, but in doing so they lose the opportunity to give the audience an experience they will remember and come back for. There are tons of bands in the middle of the pack and that's not where a successful band wants to be.

But, here's the thing. When you get someone in the band who is assuming a leadership role and isn't good at marketing, it's going to be difficult to get that person to change. He thinks he knows best, others may disagree, but it may not be easy to convince him to try anything new. In that case you and the rest will have to decide if this is the hill you want to die on. It sounds like you'd be happier starting a new band that would be interested in fresher material.

A note about horns; you don't need to have horns to play horn parts. I have a three piece instrumental trio and the guitarist and I cover horn parts all the time. But you do need to be creative with your instrumentation in order to do it. If someone's insisting the guitarist only play the funk chops the original guitarist plays, that doesn't give him room to cover what's missing, so yeah, that's a problem.

Wishing you good luck sorting this out.

Agree with everything you said except the not having horns in a song that has horns can be hit or miss. Depends on the song

 

[LBS-bass]

Agree with everything you said except the not having horns in a song that has horns can be hit or miss. Depends on the song

It does depend on the song. Here's my band replacing both clavinet and horn parts on Superstition.

We do this with a bunch of songs. I wouldn't say it would work with every horn song, but it works more often than not if we're creative with it. Others might say it isn't working here, but I think it does.

 

[kaleel2g]

It does depend on the song. Here's my band replacing both clavinet and horn parts on Superstition.

We do this with a bunch of songs. I wouldn't say it would work with every horn song, but it works more often than not if we're creative with it. Others might say it isn't working here, but I think it does.

Nice

 

[Black Out Jazz]

It does depend on the song. Here's my band replacing both clavinet and horn parts on Superstition.

We do this with a bunch of songs. I wouldn't say it would work with every horn song, but it works more often than not if we're creative with it. Others might say it isn't working here, but I think it does.

You don't show that neck pickup any love, do ya?

 

[LBS-bass]

You don't show that neck pickup any love, do ya?

I usually favor the neck very slightly at the preamp, and that gives me a little more tonal control so that I can move back to the bridge for a song like this or play closer to the neck for something where thump is more important than articulation.

That said, this bass has a very woody tone to begin with, so I can get lots of fun stuff out of that bridge position

 

[JRA]

i play in one band where all of us have vast/massive BL experience! this is kid stuff!

that said: @LBS-bass gets the "patience while seeking understanding" award.

per the OP: speaking directly is guaranteed to get a response, and no matter what that response is = you (and all of the others) will know more about what your next move/thinking could/should be. a discussion can ensue with all of the people that matter vis a vis the OP. if you care about the music = speak up! good luck communicating with your bandmate(s)!

 

[LBS-bass]

that said: @LBS-bass gets the "patience while seeking understanding" award.

Haha I tend to assume that the situation I see most often is probably the one that applies, but sometimes I get it backwards and I have to clarify.

 

[JRA]

Haha I tend to assume that the situation I see most often is probably the one that applies, but sometimes I get it backwards and I have to clarify.

you've attempted fairness with 'all parties', IMO. (re: the OP: it's still not clear to me the difference between "a rant" and whining. )

 

[DWBass]

Please post a songlist. His songs vs. your suggested songs. In a band situation, 'everyone' must be on the same page or it ain't gonna work. Period!

 

[pepj]

Because people can do more than one thing and just because there is a private issue in a band..doesn't mean the booking agent is or needs to be aware of it. They're not sitting making phone calls everyday to make sure all the bands they book aren't suffering from internal strife. The problem is the band leader wanting full control in this scenario...not the club owners forcing them to change a set list that isn't working. The issues O.P. brought up are all internal. Just because a band doesn't work in a room...you're going to blacklist everybody in the band? O.k. You'd be looking for a new job real quick.

"They would have to prove themselves in another band". Why? If you already have a relationship with the club, it's booking agent and it's sound people...they would already know you're good stuff so why would they suddenly pretend they don't know who you are if you show up in another booked band that they decided was good for the club to entertain there in the first place? Makes no sense. This is how I got a majority of the shows on great nights for "new" bands I was in. We didn't have to do Wednesdays and Thursdays...we got booked to the weekend bills without having to wait in line because they knew me and some of the other people playing.. for a decade plus when we were all cutting our teeth.. and knew I was always easy to work with, professional, always on time and treated the sound people really well...and tipped them well at the end of the night. All the bands we came from initially all broke up for some reason or another. So...that means we were all supposed to be blacklisted from the clubs? Yeah...no.

Because the OP said it wasnt working as the BL picks obscure tracks. Now, bookers dont know much but they know about that basic thing.

Obscure shouldn't mean bad, but even the OP isnt convinced.

 

[J33]

Because the OP said it wasnt working as the BL picks obscure tracks. Now, bookers dont know much but they know about that basic thing.

Obscure shouldn't mean bad, but even the OP isnt convinced.

My question is why they would be even chosen for shows in the first place when the number one prerequisite is to provide a set list to the agent and then the agent went ahead...making a decision for the club...that this set list was completely representative of what they'd want in their club to begin with. It's up to the booking agent to vet out set lists that will not work in their respective room...yet the gigs are still there. So then the booking agent is going to retract their decision on what was best for the room and put the responsibility squarely on the band for the setlist not doing well? I'm respectfully not seeing it.

 

[LBS-bass]

Because the OP said it wasnt working as the BL picks obscure tracks. Now, bookers dont know much but they know about that basic thing.

Obscure shouldn't mean bad, but even the OP isnt convinced.

Wait, I thought he said the drummer wants to do old, tired tracks, not obscure ones.

 

[pepj]

Personally if I've been asked about bands, then i know plenty, but they're asking for a recommendation, and I'll maybe recommend 3 or 4.
If they ask about others that I know, I'll say I cant recommend them. Don't wish to have to say anymore but if pushed, I'll say why.
Now, venues might not look at the same things I do, which is fine, go ahead and make your decision.

But I trust how I evaluate bands and if I think a band is short, then a change of set or personel might not address the issue. Very likely wont, ime.

A band with a very populist set doesn't necessarily make the band work so I'd expect more from an agent, personally

 

[pepj]

Wait, I thought he said the drummer wants to do old, tired tracks, not obscure ones.

Thats even worse...why are they old and tired?
That defintely points to a band issue.