Heavy Metal & Cabs Discussion

[AlexanderB]

Do lot under estimate the effect of acoustics!
The DI sound of a live guitar or bass, on stage, will be quite different if there is loud backline on stage, than if you go IEM! A large, loud backline will couple acoustically with the instrument, so that the "growl", liveliness and sustain increases.

On a good sounding stage, and in loud rock (not extremely so!), my Precision will get much more sustain in the lowest notes, and that is through a single Ampeg SVT-410HLF with a 900W amp. Playing in the higher register, the D and G string will sound (and record!) beefier and with more tonal "texture". In the same way, my Danelectro Longhorn will go from "thump machine" to "regular Precision decay".

I think the prevalence of IEM and modelling can be one reason much new metal sounds a bit "dry and clinical", actually very far from the "sweat and aggression" in older types of hard rock. In some cases, it might be a deliberate decision, but maybe not always.

 

[JeezyMcNuggles]

I've noticed with a lot of these underground heavy metal or black metal bands they seem to go for 4x10's but I've noticed all you get in a lot of them is this boomy generic bass sound behind the guitars. I personally see (2) 2x10's more than enough and give you a bit more definition allowing you to stand out more as a bass player. Anyone agree?

Of course an Ampeg 6x10 or 8x10 would be killer but I'm not no where close to getting in a band like AC/DC stadium levels to spend that kind of money. For a mid sized festival I guess a 4x10 would be required.

212s. Go with 212s.

 

[JeezyMcNuggles]

What about a 2x10 and a 1x15? Would that be enough to push through distorted guitars?

Not if they've got 412s each. 212s, probably...well, maybe. Truth, all you really need is 112, and 100w. Cause, you just need a stage monitor. The PA carries everyone, including you, and the guitarists. You just need to hear yourself, and the snare. Monitor wedge, stand near the snare. That's it bro. The audience can't hear your rig. If they can, chances are your band sounds like crap that show. Think of it like playing the same song on four different stereos in different places around the house, and standing in the middle. It's not great.

 

[Lenny JG]

My ampeg 8x10 only cost 850.. after multiple tours and shows, selling for 750 now... For 2 2x10s.. and a subwoofer.

 

[Windreaper]

As mentioned above, a vertical array of 10s or 12s is going to have a better off-axis performance than a 4x10 blasting at your ankles. Aside from that it's a matter of EQ, and chances are the house sound guy just uses a clean DI signal for whatever reason.

If you mostly play clubs with adequate PA, you don't really need to bring a rig these days. Carry a small IEM amp like Fischer In-Ear Stick or Behringer Powerplay P2 in case you don't get a club backline or wedge. I like using IEMs with wedges/amps, with the latter turned just loud enough for you to feel it. Just make sure the IEM amp has a limiter to protect your ears! I own a Barefaced 2x12, and a small DIY 1x10 for acoustic/coffee shop stuff, but the former never leaves the practice room these days.

 

[Sascha Erni]

Not if they've got 412s each. 212s, probably...well, maybe. Truth, all you really need is 112, and 100w. Cause, you just need a stage monitor. The PA carries everyone, including you, and the guitarists. You just need to hear yourself, and the snare. Monitor wedge, stand near the snare. That's it bro. The audience can't hear your rig. If they can, chances are your band sounds like crap that show. Think of it like playing the same song on four different stereos in different places around the house, and standing in the middle. It's not great.

This. If there’s PA available, you’re only concerned about on-stage monitoring, and 500W into two 112 will get you there, easily. Or 100 W in a very good 112 or 115. If your band owns good monitors, you don’t even need this much / little.

In my main band, I (and the guitar player) go direct to console, no worries at all. Our monitors give us what we need to hear onstage. With the second band, we put gear onstage as we don’t own monitors, so it’s abovementioned 2x112 for me, Marshall tube amp plus 4x12 for the guitar guy. But quite frankly that’s mostly for looks / image; both the singer and the guitar player use in-ears anyways.

Edit: Main band is a punky-metal-y-rock-y cover outfit, secondary band metal covers and originals.

 

[Eddie LeBlanc]

The best period

 

[thetragichero]

i've been playing 4x12 guitar cabinets for metal stuff (doom/powerviolence/grind/etc) for years but the low low bass stuff has never been my thing.... gimme the mids!

 

[808State]

4x10 is minimum
You can reach band levels and be in the mix. But things can get spongy with distortion.
8x10 is pretty normal to reach band levels, and have clean tight notes.
Even if you use pedal distortion, there is no spongy sound from speaker breakup.

When guys start saying guitars are too loud, or bass vibrates to much
Then Metal, Sludge or Doom is not your genre.
Its more about a very refined bass that can detune well.
And lots and lots and lots of finger technique practice.

 

[bolophonic]

So the point of this thread is to complain that 4x10" cabs give heavy bands a generic boomy bass sound? I've probably seen 1,000 heavy bands in every conceivable type of venue and I couldn't begin to predict any definitive link between speaker configuration and "boomy generic sound." This sounds like an EQ issue. Perhaps the OP is listening with his eyes?

 

[azureblue]

the best "metal" bass sound I heard was a marshall 4 -12's on top of a custom built subwoofer. The Marshall got the distortion and mids and the sub gave a nice clean low end - I guess 120 and under. My two cents is a small box multi - 10's and a sub would work great.

 

[FugaziBomb]

the reason.. you need 810's is the the effect of the cab kills 4 412's.. it notch's right in the mix.. when you turn it up.. just turn up the mids.. idiot sound guys.. use bass only.. Black metal is tuned down guitars.. bright clean bass.. but you can parallel.. the clean with overdive.. so for a show it's 3 sounds at one clean bass high & lower mids.. mud bottom bass.. and guitar overdive treble.. or just do a di and a tube guitar amp in parallel..

But why so many periods? You only need one to end a sentence. legit confused

 

[Tommy Sparks]

I’m using 2 15” cabs at this time and it works fine. Doing Sabbath and Stoner Metal things. I like the 2 15” cabs. I’ve also used an 810 for years and think it cuts through a bit more but I like the sound of the 15”s a bit better.
I’ve also used a 410 with just OK results.
What works for me in a band setting is backing off the lows and bring up the mids. Opposite of the bedroom settings.
I’ve found some guitar players are hard to mix with. Just their sound. Probably myself as well when playing guitar, I’m a bass player at hart and I sound like on it in guitar. Good luck!

 

[808State]

Pretty much.

Have bounced back n fourth between 2x15 and 810.

Eventually the 8x10 holds up a bit better and is tighter.
And you find it takes 2 cabs or a 4x15 to hold up to a 8x10.

Which I have done as well, 4x15
You just run into ohms issues , since a 2x15 is usually 4 ohms so a pair is 2 ohms.
So you either run 2 heads or run 2 heads. lol
I have had a few 2 ohms amps tube or SS and either way things get spongy at 2 ohms.

 

[Zak TMD]

Tangentially metal band. I use a 412 in an 810 box. We're a three piece so max frequency dominance is the thing we try to do. I've carved my tone / eq to fill the space the guitar and drums are not. Never been a fan of 10's in general, but specifically not 410s. Just not enough air is being moved for my liking. Went from an Ampeg 610 which was decent to the 412 and the frequency response and sheer amount amount of air moving is a huge difference.

 

[Auspuff]

I've noticed with a lot of these underground heavy metal or black metal bands they seem to go for 4x10's but I've noticed all you get in a lot of them is this boomy generic bass sound behind the guitars. I personally see (2) 2x10's more than enough and give you a bit more definition allowing you to stand out more as a bass player. Anyone agree?

Of course an Ampeg 6x10 or 8x10 would be killer but I'm not no where close to getting in a band like AC/DC stadium levels to spend that kind of money. For a mid sized festival I guess a 4x10 would be required.

Indoor, or out, nothing served me like an SVT810.

 

[Meaculpa]

I play on a five piece low tuned metal band with 2 guitarists
4x10 sealed cab. It does the job perfectly. Loads of low end rumble and upper notes definition. It cuts through the mix just fine.
I was using a 1x15 combo and that thing sounds skinny compared to my head +4x10

 

[808State]

Always exceptions, but within reason
Or typical Ampeg or older similar drivers.

2x10 or 1x15 is roughly the same amount of sound pressure before things fart out.

So 4x10 and 2x15 also roughly gets to the same place before fartout.

And Zac TMD made a good point. I never really cared for 10's or 4x10s
Strange enough, I go back to the 8x10 because that is what makes it work.
More speakers.

Since a 4x10 and 2x15 get roughly to the same place. For a single cab solution
I would rather have the 2x15.

And usually it is not enough to stay away from spongy tone.
You can get to band levels. But really riding the edge of the cabinet.

Basically boils down to either a 8x10 or a 4x15.
Your actually really not much louder than with a 4x10
But it is crisp and tight. Detune wont flub out the speakers.

810 always wins, its 4 ohms and ready to go with one head

 

[Rnr..........4]

Well I read Geddy Lee used 2x15 back in the day. Two of them for splitting the Rick sound but if he was using 2x15. Surely that is plenty of power. I've read recently some even prefer that to the bulky 4x10s

 

[Aidenn7]

But why so many periods? You only need one to end a sentence. legit confused

running thought