Enjoy the benefits of a premium membership!
Upgrade Account
-
TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
Join free Log in
Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.
Heil PR40 or Sennheiser MD421 for FOH
- Thread starter the dude
- Start date
I like both of them but I prefer the Heil. The PR40 is very similar to an RE20 but a lot less money.
I hate to say you'll need to try them and find out for yourself but it's probably the best thing to do.
I think the MD521 is a more versatile mic with the switch on it.
I hate to say you'll need to try them and find out for yourself but it's probably the best thing to do.
I think the MD521 is a more versatile mic with the switch on it.
I haven't had a chance to try the Sennheiser, but I know it's a very well-respected mic. Its physical design may be a little more user friendly. The Heil is a heavy mic, which requires making sure the boom is very tight so it doesn't move.
However, I really like the Heil. It's very transparent and makes the bass nice and present in the mix. It seems to have a little extra energy in the low-mids too for some added punch. Also, since it's a top-firing mic, it doesn't pick up a lot of stage bleed from other sources.
However, I really like the Heil. It's very transparent and makes the bass nice and present in the mix. It seems to have a little extra energy in the low-mids too for some added punch. Also, since it's a top-firing mic, it doesn't pick up a lot of stage bleed from other sources.
Excellent.
That's good enough for me.
As for sturdy stand, I use a short mic stand (no boom) so all good there.
Thanks.
That's good enough for me.
As for sturdy stand, I use a short mic stand (no boom) so all good there.
Thanks.
Obvious question is obvious: Who's gonna be mixing FOH? An engineer who's part of your band's infrastructure? A house-provided engineer who mixes every band that comes through that venue? Are you mixing yourselves from up on stage?
The guy whose hands are twiddling the knobs & whose ears are actually sitting out there at FOH is the guy that ought to be making this decision. If he's never used a PR40 (or, for that matter, never heard your band) the alleged advantages of that mic over whatever he normally uses will be reduced to near zero. (Which is one reason why it's very rare for bass players to bring their own mics to live gigs if they don't also bring their own engineer and their own PA.)
The guy whose hands are twiddling the knobs & whose ears are actually sitting out there at FOH is the guy that ought to be making this decision. If he's never used a PR40 (or, for that matter, never heard your band) the alleged advantages of that mic over whatever he normally uses will be reduced to near zero. (Which is one reason why it's very rare for bass players to bring their own mics to live gigs if they don't also bring their own engineer and their own PA.)
...^^^that being said: If I had to mic up an SVT and I was mixing FOH and my choices were between a Sennheiser MD421 and a Heil PR40, I'd go with the PR40. Wider bandwidth; it's a less "shaped" response, and so if I wanted something other than the default 421-on-an-SVT sound -- which admittedly is pretty darn iconic -- it's easier to dial in w/ the Heil.
However: If I had to provide the mic that some other engineer was gonna use to mic up my SVT and this other yahoo was mixing FOH and the choices were between a Sennheiser MD421 and a Heil PR40, I'd go with the Sennheiser...because chances are a lot better that Mr. Bozo has used that combination before and knows how to make it work.
However: If I had to provide the mic that some other engineer was gonna use to mic up my SVT and this other yahoo was mixing FOH and the choices were between a Sennheiser MD421 and a Heil PR40, I'd go with the Sennheiser...because chances are a lot better that Mr. Bozo has used that combination before and knows how to make it work.
If you want an inexpensive mic that's flat in the low end, consider an AKG P2. Well worth the $100.
What if the mic that's familiar to him is the AKG D112? At that point, there might be a battle of wills if I showed up with my PR40, as I do not like the D112 on bass. Any soundman worth a poop should be able to figure out how to use the PR40 in a matter of seconds.
If I'm getting paid to play the bass I make sure a good sound is coming out of the amp and then I let the sound guy do his job however he knows best. If I'm getting paid to mix FOH I take whatever sound is coming out of the bass amp and then I do my job the way I know best. Life's too short to Multitask when you don't absolutely have to.
Or to put it another way: Yes, any soundman worth a poop should be able to figure out how to use a PR40 in a matter of seconds. That's their job. But if he's been using a Sennheiser MD421 -- or, heaven forfend, an AKG D112 -- every night for the past 12 years, that's the mic I want him using, not something he's never used before.
Last edited:
Well I've given up the mic just because of situations like this. But I still want the sound I want...I just force it on them through electronics.
Again, being a sound guy ad nauseum, a sound guy worth his salt should be able to use a different mic without wrecking his day. You get that way from mixing 60-input orchestras with nothing more than a line check.
Listening to same mic for 12 years would bore me to tears. However, I'd gladly do it because it's my job (well, it used to be) and you're only as good as your last mix.
If a bassist mentioned a favorite mic on his cab, I'd pull it out and use it. I can remember being disappointed only once.
Listening to same mic for 12 years would bore me to tears. However, I'd gladly do it because it's my job (well, it used to be) and you're only as good as your last mix.
If a bassist mentioned a favorite mic on his cab, I'd pull it out and use it. I can remember being disappointed only once.
If you are buying the mic... 421 all the way. It is a flat out fabulous mic. I've owned and used a PR-40. It's a good mic. The 421 is on another plane IMO... Part of my adoration of the 421 is on a bass cab. It's what I carry when I take my old tube and 15's beast. It is so, so precise ... But then I go do a sound gig and put it on a sax...or on a strong male vocal with a darkish voice... Or a kick front or back side. On toms... Put one on a stand next to your favorite vocal mic. Set the ring in the middle and sing walking between both mics. Think the other one has the edge, move the ring 1 notch each way. Still think so ?
I did that with 6 really well respected vocal mics. The 421 was a clear winner for me.
The way I see it a 421 mkII is a one unit mic closet, the pR-40 is a good mic for a kick or bass guitar. Admittedly, not everyone is as mic crazy as my partner Jon and I...
Between is we have 3. 421's. They get a lot of work... The 421 is a classic mic for a reason. As they crop up on the local CL, I'll up the count as I can...
I am a mic junky. I'll try anything I can afford. My philosophy is that your tone - the tone of you, in my PA can be no better than the sound at the source so there had better be a damned good mic at the source... We are very, very picky about mics here at Gorge Sound and Light.
Btw- 421's are strong as hell. Snag a used one, with the clip. In recent shape between $225 and $275. At $275 you should get the box the mic should bee as new. $225 you may see some scars... Do not buy a 421 w/o clip unless it is a smokin' deal. The clip was $40 last time I bought... Fortunately they are also strong.
I did that with 6 really well respected vocal mics. The 421 was a clear winner for me.
The way I see it a 421 mkII is a one unit mic closet, the pR-40 is a good mic for a kick or bass guitar. Admittedly, not everyone is as mic crazy as my partner Jon and I...
Between is we have 3. 421's. They get a lot of work... The 421 is a classic mic for a reason. As they crop up on the local CL, I'll up the count as I can...
I am a mic junky. I'll try anything I can afford. My philosophy is that your tone - the tone of you, in my PA can be no better than the sound at the source so there had better be a damned good mic at the source... We are very, very picky about mics here at Gorge Sound and Light.
Btw- 421's are strong as hell. Snag a used one, with the clip. In recent shape between $225 and $275. At $275 you should get the box the mic should bee as new. $225 you may see some scars... Do not buy a 421 w/o clip unless it is a smokin' deal. The clip was $40 last time I bought... Fortunately they are also strong.
Last edited:
421 does rock. I like both, but I cannot argue with a 421 on bass. I have a PR40 and really dig it, too. The 421 is brighter, but I think the Heil is overall flatter response, though you can get a too-hyped low end if you mic it too closely. I always backed off a couple inches from the grill. But yeah, the 421 has a sound for sure.
PR40, with a good DI to get the lows that the cabinet cannot reproduce. Assuming that the mic actually adds something to the DI.
Bob,
Great points. I'm currently playing primarily 2 clubs. In the first, the club owner runs sound (is also a great bass player in a band and knows what he's doing) and offers to run both the DI (my Reddi) and a mic.
In the other, when I pulled out the beta 52 last time, the guy commented that it probably wouldn't be any better than what he was using but using the 52 was fine w/ him.
Here was his solution:
So, while I now realize I don't want the 52, I would like to give him something better than a 58.
Right now I'm leaning to the RE20, only because it can get good double duty in the home studio.
With any of your choices, I don't think you can go wrong. Having a mic geared towards bass is a worthwhile investment IME, if you want to mic a cabinet. While I'm not a fan of kick-specific mics like the D112 either, I'm really not a fan of 57s on bass cabinets. I just notice way too much roll-off with them. With a DI mixed in to catch the lows, I may change my mind, but I'm definitely not a fan of a 57 by itself.
The 421 still comes off sounding brighter to me. That said, I've not actually AB'd them directly. I should, though. Our sax player has a 421. I should talk him into letting me borrow it
Excellent response. Thanks.
Found a deal on an EV RE20, making the price difference negligible. If the Heil sounds like my mic, would that be an improvement?
