410 is a standard bass speaker. Put neodymiums in it for lightness.
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HELP 410 cab question
- Thread starter Heavision
- Start date
The best way to build a cab is to first determine the drivers you want to use and then build the cab to the specs/requirements (internal volume, port tuning, etc.) of the drivers.
If you're looking for plans Bill Fitzmaurice, a well known designer, provides them for about $15. He's well regarded. He recommends drivers for his designs too. https://billfitzmaurice.info/ I don't know if he has any for a 410 though.
If you want a sealed 410 (no ports) you could copy the (internal) dimensions of an Ampeg 810 and just build half of it. I think the Ampeg 410HE is essentially this. There are trade offs that you need to take into account when deciding to build a a sealed vs. ported cab. As you can see from most of the above posts it ain't as simple as building a box and bolting in a speaker or speakers.
If you're looking for plans Bill Fitzmaurice, a well known designer, provides them for about $15. He's well regarded. He recommends drivers for his designs too. https://billfitzmaurice.info/ I don't know if he has any for a 410 though.
If you want a sealed 410 (no ports) you could copy the (internal) dimensions of an Ampeg 810 and just build half of it. I think the Ampeg 410HE is essentially this. There are trade offs that you need to take into account when deciding to build a a sealed vs. ported cab. As you can see from most of the above posts it ain't as simple as building a box and bolting in a speaker or speakers.
Don't do it. Custom spec building for someone else is frought with danger, waste and disappointment. It's kind of like those Primitive Technology ripoff channels where they litter the jungle with mosquito pools when they're done filming their little YouTube thing.
If you want to buy your buddy a 410 go check out your local Music-go-round. Would you be happy if your grandma bought you a custom guitar? Probably not. Aww Grandma that was sweet but... Nobody uses Kahlers since 1984 and lipstick pickups on a shredder? No thanks.
If you want to buy your buddy a 410 go check out your local Music-go-round. Would you be happy if your grandma bought you a custom guitar? Probably not. Aww Grandma that was sweet but... Nobody uses Kahlers since 1984 and lipstick pickups on a shredder? No thanks.
Finger joints, more properly referred to as box joints, don't matter even a little bit. Your builder builds guitar speaker cabs and by your own statements, neither of you know enough to even know what you don't know. You and your guy can either educate yourself in bass reflex theory, which seems increasingly unlikely with each successive post, build from some proven plans from someplace like BFM, or you can try to clone an existing cab. The Ampeg 410 is a workable example, but that theory only works if you load it with the same drivers, or ones that have very similar performance characteristics. Then what's the point... why not just buy a used Ampeg 410 for considerably less than half of the investment in this new custom cab? Which brings up the arithmetical argument about building any custom 410: 4 of any kind of decent driver is a significant amount of money; add that to the cost of the cab and you'll be into this cab for at least $850, probably more. And you still won't have any assurance that it's going to work as well as a beat-up old pawnshop 410 that could be purchased for $200. My advice is to heed the advice previously offered by some folks who know whereof they speak -- buy something commercially made.
Just to reiterate, for bass amplification, the speakers and the enclosure in which they're contained operate as a system -- the cab must be engineered to accommodate the physical and electrical performance characteristics of the drivers. Do some research into Thiele-Small parameters and you'll see that there are a fair number of variables involved.
Just to reiterate, for bass amplification, the speakers and the enclosure in which they're contained operate as a system -- the cab must be engineered to accommodate the physical and electrical performance characteristics of the drivers. Do some research into Thiele-Small parameters and you'll see that there are a fair number of variables involved.
D
Like others have already said: By a bass cab from a well regarded manufacturer of BASS equipment.
If you absolutely want to build a cab, wouldn't it be better to first decide on the speakers and then make a cab with dimensions/ports that will actually work with those speakers?
If you absolutely want to build a cab, wouldn't it be better to first decide on the speakers and then make a cab with dimensions/ports that will actually work with those speakers?
I think you're missing the point. I'm sure his carpentry skills are fantastic, and the box will be very well built and will never fall apart. However, what you are saying is basically 'my friend is a great chef so I'm going to get him to fix my gas stove'.
Also, reverse engineering an existing cab is a complete waste of time unless you are going to use those same exact drivers.
Again, with guitar cabs you can stick any speaker in any box and you'll be fine. This DOES NOT apply to bass speakers.
If you want to take advantage of his free carpentry skills, have him build you a Fearful 2x12 which will destroy any homemade 4x10.
greenboy fEARful 1212/6 Bass Guitar DIY speaker kit. Your own custom bass guitar cabinet
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Ouch, some of the replies are harsh on someone they don't even know. This sentiment has been growing here on TB in a multitude of posts. Perhaps the spirit of Chef can come in here and say "knock it off you knuckleheads"?
Where are you located and who is the builder? It may be that they already have designs and speaker combinations in mind. I have had a couple of friends that have had cabs built for them and just gave the builder all of their specifications. Who knows they may be local to you and might even be the same builder.
A schematic only tells how to the wire a cab. That won't help here.
If you are looking for building plans there are plenty available. But those plans are specific to the speakers being used.
Another route to take... talk to your bass player.
"Hey, we've been really good friends and I appreciate all that you bring to this band. I've got a little extra cash floating around and would like to kick in some $$ towards a bass cab for you, as a way of showing my appreciation."
scottfeldstein
Roots and fifths and a little extra.
I would steer you away from a 410 configuration no matter who made it. I think the only reason the 410 exists is because a pair of them is easier to move than a single 810. They're big, heavy, and too many of their speakers are at ankle height. Get a pair of 210 cabs. Or even better, get a quality pair of 112s. Then stack them vertically to get as much height out of them as you can.
I understand that your buddy has all the chops to build a solid cab. The comments here are related to the sound of the cab, not the construction itself. Bass cabs need more thinking than a guitar cab because of how the low frequencies work. I’m no engineer but such a tread comes every couple of days here. Some tried to build a box with bass speakers in it. It will produce noise, but not what you’re looking for in a cab.
As some suggested, greenboy fearful and bill fitzmaurice cans are excellent and there plans are detailed, including the type of speaker and crossover (if needed). That’s a great place to start and your buddy will be happy to learn a few things in bass cab build. I built a fearful 12/6 a couple years ago (incredible for the size) and am currently finishing a 12sub to go with it.
welcome to TB and good luck with your project!
This!!!
If you want to build the cab…
Build a fEARful.
The engineering and testing has already been done for you.
- Feb 12, 2006
- 61,047
- 5
- 221,000
- Disclosures
- Development Engineer-Mesa Boogie, Development Engineer-Genzler (pedals), Product Support-Genz Benz
Most of the posts and advice being given is solid and accurate. This is based on the information given by the op in the first post.
If you don’t understand the difference between a guitar and bass cabinet, the math behind the differences, and aren’t willing/able to learn, then this is not likely to end well.
IME, a good used cabinet will almost always be less expensive and perform better than a “custom built” cabinet that does not follow the requirements of the science behind a good design.
This isn’t harsh, this is honest accurate information.
- Feb 12, 2006
- 61,047
- 5
- 221,000
- Disclosures
- Development Engineer-Mesa Boogie, Development Engineer-Genzler (pedals), Product Support-Genz Benz
It’s not the building that’s the problem, it’s the design behind the build that’s important.
- Apr 18, 2008
- 16,016
- 1
- 31,730
- Disclosures
- I'm highly opinionated and extremely self-assured
Guitarist: Pick some drivers that sound good. Mount them in a box big enough to hold them. Done.
Bassist: Pick some drivers that appear to sound good on paper. Enter their Thiele/Small parameters into cabinet modeling software, because the drivers and the box have to work together as a system. Adjust the box parameters (internal volume, port tuning, etc.) and see how the response curve changes. To avoid destroying shiny new drivers in a vented cabinet, pay close attention to driver excursion below port resonance. Or learn about HPFs. Understand that strong response around the first overtone, not the fundamental, is what's really important. Build the box from good quality void-free plywood. Use finger joints for aesthetics if you want, but don't fool yourself into thinking they matter one bit for structural integrity. Use construction adhesive such as PL Premium, which expands to fill any voids in the seams. Brace the box really well. Load the drivers, wire them up, plug in, and see how she sounds. Repeat as necessary.
Or just buy a nice cabinet from a reputable manufacturer.
Bassist: Pick some drivers that appear to sound good on paper. Enter their Thiele/Small parameters into cabinet modeling software, because the drivers and the box have to work together as a system. Adjust the box parameters (internal volume, port tuning, etc.) and see how the response curve changes. To avoid destroying shiny new drivers in a vented cabinet, pay close attention to driver excursion below port resonance. Or learn about HPFs. Understand that strong response around the first overtone, not the fundamental, is what's really important. Build the box from good quality void-free plywood. Use finger joints for aesthetics if you want, but don't fool yourself into thinking they matter one bit for structural integrity. Use construction adhesive such as PL Premium, which expands to fill any voids in the seams. Brace the box really well. Load the drivers, wire them up, plug in, and see how she sounds. Repeat as necessary.
Or just buy a nice cabinet from a reputable manufacturer.
