Help dealing with bandmate's relatives.

[MegaSwing]

Regardless of what the dad's experience is in the 'biz', he doesn't have the right to disrespect and discourage people who are putting themselves on the line, home or away. If he is trying to be a mentor, this is a funky way to go about it. Unless he has a dog in the fight (as in money, reputation, effort, etc.), he needs to temper his commentary or find a hobby.

On the other hand, perhaps he thinks he's testing the group's will, to see how much they will bear before blowing up. Some people respect you more if you respond aggressively to being prodded. It's his idea of a 'life lesson'. If this is the case, assure him that the lesson is appreciated and politely advise him to bugger off, 'cause there's work to do.

One thing is for sure, nothing is going to change for the better in this situation unless/until his role is clarified once and for all. Is he a mentor, advisor, manager, mighty potentate, or just a frustrated old guy with nothing to offer but negativity? This sniping from the grandstand crap has to stop, for everybody's sake.

 

[MatticusMania]

Regardless of what the dad's experience is in the 'biz', he doesn't have the right to disrespect and discourage people who are putting themselves on the line, home or away.

This. The people saying "dont confront a man in his own house", while well intentioned, are misguided, IMO. You dont have someone into your house, and then insult them or tear them down with nothing positive to offer.

Confrontation doesnt mean saying "Hey old man, **** off." It could be as simple as:

"I appreciate your input. What's your objective? Nothing you've said so far has been constructive."

 

[Factor88]

Confrontation doesnt mean saying "Hey old man, **** off." :

Yes, but kicking a guy in the nuts, or telling him to GTFO, or some of the similar suggestions posted here, IS confrontation. No one who is using the "a man's home is his castle" rationale would likely disagree that having a man-to-man, calm, professional talk with the guy is non-confrontational, and the way to go.


On a different tack, is it possible there is more to this story than we know? It seems like at first there was no problem, but that things have gotten worse. The question is, what is different about now than before? That might be your answer................

 

[leonche64]

I don't see telling someone that the bass line they are playing is weak is disrespectful. He did not speak nicely and hurt someones feelings seems to be the issue here, at least as brought up by a lot of folks since the OP. Anybody here play football in high school or was everybody in the marching band? Anybody go to Marine boot camp? Hell, anybody else from Georgia? We seem to be all hung up on the "way" he delivered his message rather than what the message was. Which was "You can do better".

 

[mambo4]

Find another place to practice sans Dad.

exactly. rehearse elsewhere.

 

[Marko 1]

... halfway through it when his father, who I guess was in the garage watching (I didn't see him and he didn't help us set up like he normally does) stops us and asks me "what the !@#$ I think I'm doing?" When I start to tell him that I'd only had the chords and an audio file for a half hour, he cuts me off and tells me that he could have come up with a similar line if he'd had a bass laying around the house and that I should be talented enough to come up with better lines if we ever plan on making it in HIS business.

He normally helped set up? That’s pretty cool

You could read his comments as he thinks you can do better, and wants you to better. He didn’t say “You’ll never make it in this business” or dismiss you. It also indicates that his mind is on you guys being in the business, instead of fluffing you off.

Old guys can get grumpy… add to that a bad day/mood, and they can appear unreasonable, but I would swallow my pride, at least for now.

I recant my last post and suggest that you go back like nothing ever happened and see how it goes. It might get worse, it might never happen again.

I could understand if we were a bunch of teenage boys (or the Jackson 5 or Beach Boys) but I'm I'm in my 20's as is the guitarist who is a senior in college.

And with all due respect, when you get older, 20s is a kid (and you son/daughter may always be a kid in your eyes), and you’ll think so as well when you get older.

 

[Depth_Charge]

We seem to be all hung up on the "way" he delivered his message rather than what the message was.

Which is a perfectly natural human response to such situations.

Like it or not the way the message was delivered threw a shadow of doubt over its intended meaning and the intentions with which it was delivered.

Just as "soft" people benefit from hardening up, "hard" people can benefit by taking a softer approach.

 

[Stumbo]

Just as "soft" people benefit from hardening up, "hard" people can benefit by taking a softer approach.

Bet the dad is not "hard" with the people who hire him. Probably kisses their @$$. He's only "hard" with people who he thinks can't or won't fight back. Anti-social behavior.

Run, Forest, run.

 

[Depth_Charge]

Bet the dad is not "hard" with the people who hire him. Probably kisses their @$$. He's only "hard" with people who he thinks can't or won't fight back. Anti-social behavior.
Run, Forest, run.

Hehe yeah thats one slant.
Perhaps he's also hard on people who he has taken an interest in helping develop....including those who work with those he has an interest in? Thats why I suggested both styles of behaviour could find some wiggle room to get along...

A little OT but my 11yo only started guitar this year and I'm already wanting to meddle more than I should be, out of concern for her learning, but its still HER learning etc.

So I can't imagine what its like for a parent with the creds in the biz leaving things to play out naturally while wanting to get in there and help develop things...

 

[S.B.]

Since this band is yours with his son and the drummer. I think you need to talk straight up with them about your feelings. Then I think it is up to his son to make a decision about his father. Unfortunately my guess is based on what your saying and his fathers aggressive style in front of his son that it may not change. It doesn't sound like your going to be able to continue unless it does. If their willing it might make sense to rehearse somewhere else where dad is not. Good Luck

 

[BassyBill]

It's difficult to say whether the father actually wants to help here or just massage his own ego a little, but either way it does sound like he has some issues relating to people without some friction. Unless, of course, the bass line you came up with really was THAT bad? I guess we've all clanged badly at some times in that respect.

Any of these scenarios are going to make things tricky for you in that environment, I'm afraid. That's a shame because the place itself and the father's experience could be really positive things for your band. Is there any way you can just sort of laugh off his most brutal comments or even use them in a positive way as a challenge to improve? If not, I'm afraid your feelings are going to get hurt again. I think it's unlikely he'll sugar coat things for you, and if you're in his home and he wants to get involved then it's going to be very hard for you or his son to establish a bit more distance from him, or more sensitivity on his part.

 

[ErikW]

Hehe yeah thats one slant.
Perhaps he's also hard on people who he has taken an interest in helping develop....including those who work with those he has an interest in? Thats why I suggested both styles of behaviour could find some wiggle room to get along...

This. My son was an awesome soccer player and used to ask me all of the time why the coach would always ride him more so than the other players. Because the coach saw the talent and potential in him and yelling at the others would just be a waste of time. Something to consider.

 

[jp58]

I'm not saying I wrote a perfect piece of music. I just scribbled something down so I had an idea of where to start when I got there. I'm not sure if he was expecting a fully polished song or what. Also, this behavior is way out of the ordinary for him. I've been around them a good bit, and a fair amount of time outside of music. He blacksmiths on the side, and I've been over a few times to help them get ready for Civil war re-enactments or the like.

I'm not sure what he was trying to tell me, because how he came across dominated my mind. Usually he's helpful in as many ways as possible, but that seemed extremely confrontational, and instead of getting in a pissing contest, I left for home. I've seen how tensions like that can wreck good things, and rather that have at the fisticuffs with him, I'd rather just leave.

I haven't talked to either since it happened, other that to tell the guitarist I wouldn't be making it tonight because I've been sick. I was supposed to help them get ready for something tomorrow night, not sure if that's still going to happen or what. I probably ought to get in touch with him later on if I feel better.

 

[azureblue]

the stage where others with more experience than you, start offering "advice" and "input". And meddle.

Rule#14- don't be rude to a person (even though they are rude to you) who has been in the biz longer than you have. There is no rule, either, that says you have to buy into their attitude, (he could have just been having an off day) but you can draw a hard line. Do that with him, man to man. Do not let him talk down to you, and do not reject what he has to say or offer. Simply respond with, "well, I'd like to hear what you came up with. I can't guarantee the band will use it, but write it down and we'll consider it. "

You're going to run into more of this as the band progresses, so learn how to handle them successfully. The further up the ladder you get, the more people will come around offering "advice". And you need to develop, right now, a way to handle them, good advice, bad advice, leeches, sharks, hangers on wannabees, good people who really can help the band, etc. Learn how to say "no, get lost, GFY, etc" and leave them smiling. Practice on this guy...

But the real subtext is why is he nosing around and trying to get involved. I doubt that he is doing it simply because he has a son in the band, my guess is you guys may actually have something going on, and he is watching it carefully as it develops, thinking that, with some polish and direction, this could go somewhere.

Final- don't think of him as a foe. Make him a friend, but make sure he treats you and the band with respect. Get him on your side and learn how to pick his brain, learn from his experience, without making him a member of the band.

 

[GypsyMan]

Hey JP,

Inadvertantly you've already done the right thing!
Don't go help them with whatever you were going to help them with.
You and the drummer should go practice some where else.
Let the guitarist come to you.


No explanation necessary. No need for fisticuffs, or shouting.

 

[LowDown Hal]

buy the old boy some Metamucil, or prune juice

 

[KillianRussell]

The Father probably noddled around with his left hand and worked out a bassline on the piano with the son prior to your arrival.

 

[TRichardsbass]

I don't see telling someone that the bass line they are playing is weak is disrespectful. He did not speak nicely and hurt someones feelings seems to be the issue here, at least as brought up by a lot of folks since the OP. Anybody here play football in high school or was everybody in the marching band? Anybody go to Marine boot camp? Hell, anybody else from Georgia? We seem to be all hung up on the "way" he delivered his message rather than what the message was. Which was "You can do better".

I agree that in general people have become too sensitive and whining p#$$ssies who all subscribe to the Special Olympics mentality of "everyone gets a medal."

Here's the difference here; they didn't ask for his input nor did they hire him. When you join the Marines you make a choice to go to Paris Island have them beat you into submission, mentally and physically. When you play football you sign up to have a coach tell you you suck, that you are fat/slow/stupid.

The kids are in a band and dad hangs around, giving his input without directly being asked. In those cases he should be a crap load more tactful or he should ask the band if it is alright to give his opinion. If they say yes then they get whatever he dishes.

In this case, assuming JP did only have a couple of minutes to work on something, he should have worked with the kid, not blown up in his face. And like it or not, not everyone responds to the same impetus. Yell at me and I might want to prove you wrong or do something that makes your yelling at me make you look like a dick. Yell at my original drummer and he would practically cry and give up. Put the promise of $$$$ in front of my original drummer and he would kill himself to get everything perfect and superior.

Nothing wrong with JP walking away to avoid the confrontation. He is young and his skills in dealing with confrontational people clearly haven't matured yet. He chose the right thing for him. In time I'm sure he will learn how to deal with people who communicate like this.

Now, if JP continues to avoid everything, that is bad and he will not learn a skill he will need in this business forever.

 

[thetaxmiser]

Hard to know what is going on here.

Was the guy ripping you in the mold of a high school football coach? Maybe he was just giving you some stuff along those lines. or was he really being a jerk?

Maybe the best thing to do is just ask him? "Why were you giving me so much **** the other night?" and see what he says.

Otherwise you are just trying to read tea leaves.

 

[Factor88]

Also, this behavior is way out of the ordinary for him. I've been around them a good bit, and a fair amount of time outside of music. He blacksmiths on the side, and I've been over a few times to help them get ready for Civil war re-enactments or the like.

What!!?? Out of the ordinary behavior from a blacksmithing, civil-war-reenacting, aging musician??!?