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HELP! Issues with volume/burning smell from Hydrive 410 when using the LH1000

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by Auggie, Mar 28, 2017.


  1. Auggie

    Auggie

    Mar 28, 2017
    So I've had this setup for about a month and a half now (Hartke LH1000 with the Hydrive 4x10), all of which was purchased as a set with the Speakon cable that I am currently using.

    Prior to purchasing this, I had two pretty nice combos at about 150w. I've recently joined my first band and needed more volume. So I took them in, got the money for them, and got this because it sounded fantastic.

    So I took it to my band's heated practice pad where it's been since. My drummer and guitarist were both very impressed with the loudness and fullness I was getting out of it, as was I. All settings were about flat:

    -Vol - 4/5 (Guitar typically turned up all the way)
    -Bass, Mids, Treble - 5 (variously boosted to 7 at most)
    -Brite & Limiter rarely used
    -Speakon cable running from bridge mode on the head (switched on) to the leftmost input on the cab
    -High Frequency switch set to middle (negated)

    Anyways, I go to plug in yesterday as I've done for hours on end for over a month now with absolutely no complaints (and no changes to settings or volume, mind you) and I just couldn't get on level with my guitarist. I gradually turned it up to 6.5 where it seemed sufficient. We started playing our first song and every time I played the open E my amp made this awful quacking sound. About midway through the second song I started smelling something terrible like burning glue. After smelling around the head and smelling nothing, I knelt down to the cab and determined that it was without a doubt coming from the bottom two speakers. All were still moving in unison.

    Cut practice short, took it home and haven't played it since (3rd floor apartment). I called Hartke today to see what the issue could be and they informed me that this is more than likely a user inflicted issue and that I have to ship this 100 lb rig 90 miles JUST TO SEE IF IT'S AN ISSUE ON MY PART.

    Not trying to make this a novel, but bottom line is my first big gig is in two weeks and I'm absolutely furious, as this was the very reason I got the amp in the first place. I'm also very upset because this was something that I bought as a set and the instruction manual says that I am doing everything with 100% accuracy.

    The only reason I even made this is because I saw on a similar thread that somebody by the name of Larry Hartke personally offered to help. Any suggestions or extrapolations would be appreciated.

    Thanks! 20170328_173531. 20170328_173546.
     
  2. soflbass

    soflbass

    Mar 2, 2013
    S Florida
    I would ask Hartke if there is an authorized local service center you could take it to check it out. I know they have one close by me.

    If something wrong with the amp caused issues with your cab, then I imagine they would make you whole.
    Don't know if he still responds, but Larry Hartke's number is 201-680-8153. He also responds on Facebook if you reach out.

    Good luck and I hope this works out for you.
     
  3. Well, here's the thing: in bridged mode that amp can toast that cab (or any other 410) regardless of what the specs say. And regardless of what the knob positions might lead you to believe you are doing. Two things: you probably got lucky, as long as the speakers all still work and don't sound distorted. Next, be aware that the EQ setting you're using is actually SCOOPED in the midrange. This leads to volume wars because your tone lacks 'loudness' which comes from the mids. From page 10 of the manual: "When all three EQ knobs are in their center positions (“5”), the response is actually set to a preset equalization curve, with a low and high-end boost and a mid-range cut, producing an EQ contour (at Hartke, we like to say, SHAPE) that sounds great for bass." And it does, alone and solo. But in a mix it may tend to get lost, so you turn up.....and up.... Try turning BASS down to say, 10:00 and MID up to 2:00. Never mind how it sounds solo. Go jam and see how it works.
     
    Last edited: Mar 28, 2017
    Omega Monkey and Auggie like this.
  4. That really sucks.
    For future reference, if your speakers don't sound right, it's because something isn't right.
    When that happens you have to back off on the loudenmaker knobs.

    Speaker power ratings and amp power ratings should only be used as general guidelines.
    It is better if your speakers can handle significantly more power than the amp can make.
    Be sure you are comparing the same type of power measurement with the amp and the speaker.
    For instance don't use peak power from one while using RMS power from another.

    I've got a Rumble 200 combo. No question there about using the right cab with the right speaker, right?
    Without the extension speaker, my combo is rated for 140 watts into it's internal 8 Ohm speaker.
    The speaker, as I understand is rated for 300 watts. Yet depending on on EQ and levels I can make the thing fart out.

    I hope it turns out to not be a big problem, but I think you're gonna need a pair of 4x10's with that amp.
     
  5. Bassmec

    Bassmec

    May 9, 2008
    Ipswich UK
    Proprietor Springvale Studios
    So when you say Bass "guitar typically turned up all the way" does that include the bass EQ control if you have an active bass, because that could be as much as +16dB at circa 50Hz.
    That could make a chaps loudspeakers pretty jolly stinky.:-(
    You can take the bass player out of the bedroom, but can you really take the bedroom out of the bass players EQ?.
    Answer: Why certainly!, just after he has blown up some rather expensive speakers.
    Fletcher Munsen curves in graphs, measured how much bass content aparantly rises and falls dependant on loudness.
    This information has been treated as pure Herasy!, mostly by bass players with smelly farted out speakers.
    The Harsh frapping sound on low notes you describe is often referred to as "hitting loudspeaker X lim".
     
  6. tfer

    tfer

    Jan 1, 2014
    As soon as you hear farting, TURN DOWN!!

    That's the sound of a driver screaming for mercy!!

    I have an LH500, and my settings are bass - 3, midrange - 10, and highs rolled off completely.

    I use active basses, and can dial in anything I want with those settings from the instrument.

    By bridging that amp, you are pouring far more power into that cab than it was ever designed to handle.

    With luck, you stopped playing in time to save the drivers. Plug it in (not bridged) and try it out.
     
    David Jayne likes this.
  7. "Pretty jolly stinky." : D
     
    tfer likes this.
  8. Auggie

    Auggie

    Mar 28, 2017
    Will do, and I really appreciate this insight in regards to EQ because all of my knowledge on the topic at the moment is tentative, as you've pointed out. The only problem I have with that, however, is that I haven't tried to play it since the incident, as I'm worried I may cause further damage; especially considering it may very well already be unprotected by warranty. Thanks again for the awesome responses from you and the others on the site.
     
    David Jayne likes this.
  9. Since everything was fine and then it sucked next time, I think someone had at it when you weren't there.
     
  10. That amp puts out 1000w. Thats a lot of oumph for a speaker to handle, even if you use it with 2 cabs. It can easily blow out any speaker if you're not careful. And since the eq on this amp works the way it does and you have it set up the way you have (like some other people in this thread already explained) it's obvious to me that the cab can't handle what you are asking it to do. When you heart that farting sound on the low notes it's a tell tale sign. Your options are:

    1. Turn down your volume and reset the eq to a setting that makes the cab sound better, without farting.
    2. Get another cab. Either another like the one you already have, so that they both share the power load from the amps and don't have to work as hard to keep up with what you're asking them to do. Or get a bigger cab with other drivers that can handle more power and more lows.

    I had the exact same problem just a couple of weeks ago, with a 700w head into a 350w cab. It farted out before I could get any useable volume out of it. I got a bigger cab and reset the eq slightly. Problem solved!
     
  11. I have a Kilo... And I am fearful of running the amp in bridge mode all the time. Even though the numbers match up and everything. From what I understand, bridge mode sets one amp on positive and the other on negative. I can only imagine that would put your drivers under a serious work-out. That is why I use my cabs in stereo mode (for the most part).
    My guitarist is also very loud. He uses a MINIMUM of 1 Marshall stack... Pending on the gig. I use 2 AK410 cabs... And even though I am only getting 200 watts(estimated) per side, I am still plenty loud enough with the volume at around 12:30.
    Maybe you want to invest into a 2nd cab? Just my thoughts...
     
  12. I have been using power amps of one sort or another since the Sixties. “Stereo” versions since the Eighties. I have never seen a reason to run in Bridge for all that time. Bridge releases so much power it’s easy to damage speaker systems unless you are very, very careful. I run mine into two 4Ω 2x10s, one on each channel. If I just need one cabinet I use just a single channel.
     
  13. lz4005

    lz4005

    Oct 22, 2013
    You melted important things in the two stinky speakers. Replace them.
    In the future listen carefully for the sound of speakers dying. Turn down when you hear that happening.
     
  14. someone did. If it was the OP he might have failed to notice it didn't get any louder with an increment of gain adjustment. That can happen without farting out if you aren't greedy with low EQ. Then a longer or more intense session might have performed the overheating without him noticing, when previous months of sailing close had not.

    Or some idiot got in the practice room.
     
  15. A cabinet is able to produce a certain volume level. Once you get to that point you can add a thousand watts and it will get no louder just burn out. One of the reasons to be careful when using an amp in bridge!
     
  16. Well, whatever damage may have been done is done. The speakers are either damaged (recone needed) or they're not. There's no harm in trying it again.
     
    tfer likes this.
  17. JGbassman

    JGbassman Supporting Member

    May 31, 2011
    I had an mb800 that I dubbed the cab killer. I smoked a couple of carvin 215 cabs years ago before I got a handle on that amp. I stupidly figured the fused cabs would blow the fuses before any damage, but man I was wrong. The cabs were rated at 300 watts, and the 800 watt micro head had them for lunch. Funny thing was I really wasn't that loud or overly bassy either, and the cabs really didn't fart either.

    The mb800 eventually crapped out, so now I use either a 200watt SS head or a 300 watt svt cl head.

    With 1000 watts you can easily cook cabs and not even realize it. As stated, use your ears and listen to the cab in distress, and cut the lows. That's one of the best things you can do to keep your cabs from cooking.
     
    David Jayne likes this.
  18. Auggie

    Auggie

    Mar 28, 2017
    149084722531653348737. 1490847263463738630147. Couldn't get a whole lot of volume when I got to practice the other day, tried to turn up and got a nasty clipping sound.

    I turned down after for our first song or two, but we smelled this god awful burning chemical odor in the air. I sniffed around and could tell it was the cab.

    Popped it off to take a look and as you can tell, the black coating around the cone is gone and the paper is exposed. I'm thinking of putting some type of epoxy or acrylic over it for protection, but idk if it's completely blown or what.
     

    Attached Files:

  19. Auggie

    Auggie

    Mar 28, 2017
    Yeah man, exactly. I've been looking at cabs all day and I think my best option from here is to go with the 115 500W Hydrive.

    Problem is, this is my first stack and i have no idea how to do it. Everyone's saying to run it bridged and then chain in to the next, but critical thinking tells me that's going to overdrive the cab even more.

    So I guess what I'm asking is, as somebody with a similar setup, would you recommend that? Cause then I'm only sending 225W to a 1000W cab and then 225W to the 500W.
     
  20. The cab being rated at 1000w don't have any relation to how much volume it can produce. It can still fart out quite easily.

    In my experience a 115 cab can handle less volume than a 410 cab, added upp the 410 has more speaker area than the 115. The sound from the 115 will also be different. If you are going to use 2 cabs, don't bridge them. There is no need to. You will be plenty loud anyway, and run less risk to cause damage to your speakers.
     

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