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Double Bass Help me understand slash chords better

#121
Steve Freides said:
Well, now you've gotten me to the other side. Standard standards notation (did I just say that?) doesn't allow for anything except a root position chord. If you want another bass note, how else would you get it _except_ for a slash? If classical, with figured bass, and we know if you want, e.g., Emin7b5 with a G bass you can say Gmin6, but that last bit of sleight of hand only works if there's another name for what you want.

Bewitched, bothered and bewildered am I.

-S-
Click to expand...

Typically italic suffixes - b for 1st inversion, c for 2nd etc are used. So iib in C would be Dm in 1st inversion, or Dm/F.
 
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#123
P.S. I did not want to open another thread; therefore, I'm just posting some harmony-related question/s in this thread.
In our BG TAB forum ("forbidden";) for all DB players to attend), we have a "situation":confused: o_O.

It's about a nice track, "Sugar" by Stanley Turrentine.



Our TB member, Bass Momma, has expressed unhappiness with some of the Real Book chord choices for "Sugar".
"| C-7 | D-7b5 G7#5 | C-7 | G7#5 |
| C-7 | C-7 | D-7 | G7#5 |
| C-7 | C-7 | F-7 | Eb7 |
| D-7b5 | G7#5 | Ab7#11 | G7#5 |

That Ab7 sounds wrong, also a couple of other places."
-------------------------------------------------------------------
I've put my extremely large headphones on, listened, and posted a comment,
"The bass with that chord plays G and a descending arpeggio G - Eb - C, next, Db, D natural, Eb, Ab, and D."

My question.
How can that DB (not to be confused with BG) player play G on beat 1 with Ab7#11?

It's around 0:43.92 from the above referenced YouTube video.

What's more.
I've tried to "extract" that chord voicing/s played by the chordifying instrument and become convinced that,
the chordifying instrument (not the whole band/soloist) is voicing the following notes - Gb Bb C Eb, with some possibilities of Db, some kind of Cmin7b5(b9) chord inversion.

What kind of chord is in that particular spot?

As an amateur pop musician, I could not figure out answers; therefore, I was forced to ask THIS forum for some knowledgeable answers.

Here is that short soundclip (just slower) of the chord in question.
Around 0:04.
https://www.talkbass.com/attachment...2/?temp_hash=5aae570f1d1a745228cc6525dd20b73f

Thank you in advance.
 

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#124
It would work with a Ab maj7#11. With a Ab7#11 the bass might better use a F# which is not only the 7 of the Ab but also the major third of the D7#11 which is the tritone substitute (or rather the Ab is the tritone substitute of the D which is the Domnant of the G).
But sometimes bass and chord instruments work their own way with modifications through the changes and things like that can happen. I don't sound nice, but each in itself has a correct way to get from here to there, just the ways each of them go differs.

Seems like the bass uses Ab maj7#11 and the tritone substitute On D over seven (or eight) beats at the end, the last one could also be seen as a fifth to the G of the last chord (delayed chord change), but might also be the #11 of Ab or the root of the tritone substitute D.

Well, this is not highly fixed notation pop music, but spontaneous interaction.
 
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#125
DoubleMIDI said:
It would work with a Ab maj7#11. With a Ab7#11 the bass might better use a F# which is not only the 7 of the Ab but also the major third of the D7#11 which is the tritone substitute (or rather the Ab is the tritone substitute of the D which is the Domnant of the G).
But sometimes bass and chord instruments work their own way with modifications through the changes and things like that can happen. I don't sound nice, but each in itself has a correct way to get from here to there, just the ways each of them go differs.

Seems like the bass uses Ab maj7#11 and the tritone substitute On D over seven (or eight) beats at the end, the last one could also be seen as a fifth to the G of the last chord (delayed chord change), but might also be the #11 of Ab or the root of the tritone substitute D.

Well, this is not highly fixed notation pop music, but spontaneous interaction.
Click to expand...
Thank you.
Is it possible that the real book publisher just made a typo - instead of Abmaj7, it typed as Ab7?
 
#127
Steve Freides said:
Anyone tell us which Real Book this is in? Thx.

-S-
Click to expand...

It's The Real Book Fifth Edition.
Page 414

st.PNG
 
#128
Whousedtoplay said:
I've put my extremely large headphones on, listened, and posted a comment,
"The bass with that chord plays G and a descending arpeggio G - Eb - C, next, Db, D natural, Eb, Ab, and D."

My question.
How can that DB (not to be confused with BG) player play G on beat 1 with Ab7#11?
Click to expand...

My guess is that Mr. Carter was not thinking of an Ab7 at that moment for whatever reason and perhaps instinctively resolved the minor iiØ-V to i instead of subV/V, then heard that something different was happening and improvised his way out of it. That kind of thing happens all the time and during the period the record was made, whoever was in charge might not have felt it was worth doing over.
 
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#129
Chris Fitzgerald said:
My guess is that Mr. Carter was not thinking of an Ab7 at that moment for whatever reason and perhaps instinctively resolved the minor iiØ-V to i instead of subV/V, then heard that something different was happening and improvised his way out of it. That kind of thing happens all the time and during the period the record was made, whoever was in charge might not have felt it was worth doing over.
Click to expand...

Thank you. It's a very valid point.
Let's listen to another "similar" spot. It's around 1:15.
Mr. Carter just likes arpeggiating. :smug:
A sound clip (slower) of that second "would be" Ab7 or just straight Cmin7.

https://www.talkbass.com/attachment...7/?temp_hash=5ecbf6a0b3a14b65792609aec56593be

Now, here is a "distilled" version of that "Real Book" Cmin7 (slower).
The chord progression does not go straight to Cmin7.
https://www.talkbass.com/attachment...9/?temp_hash=5ecbf6a0b3a14b65792609aec56593be
 

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#130

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#132
Whousedtoplay said:
I've tried to "extract" that chord voicing/s played by the chordifying instrument and become convinced that,
the chordifying instrument (not the whole band/soloist) is voicing the following notes - Gb Bb C Eb, with some possibilities of Db, some kind of Cmin7b5(b9) chord inversion.

What kind of chord is in that particular spot?
Click to expand...
The notes "Gb Bb C Eb" spell a very common Rootless Voicing of an Ab7,9 chord. But it would help if the bassist would, at some point, play an actual Ab note somewhere in those 8 beats. (Sarcasm Intended.)
Thanks.
 
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#134
"...whoever was in charge might not have felt it was worth doing over."

They also were not concerned with the massive "out of tune-ness" of the guitar on this track!
But, the record label, CTI, was very concerned with the packaging and appearance of their product - always great cover art/photography! So they had that going for them.
Thanks.

Edit: There is also an "extra" measure added to the last chorus of the guitar solo! Whoever edited the track was not aware of the form of the tune.
Jeez...C'mon.
 
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#138
The pianist is actually playing an Ab13 chord-- Gb Bb C F, and in this context it would function as a lydian dominant chord (#11). You can hear it clearly during the guitar solo, and it actually goes for 2 bars. Also the 10th bar is an F#7#11-to me the coolest chord in the tune! A secondary dom going to the iv chord(V/iv). Never trust a real book! And yes, Ron Carter can play whatever he wants because he is Ron Carter!! And by the way, to keep to the topic you can write them as slash chords- Bb/Ab7. (voicing specific to get 9, #11, 13). I prefer Ab13#11 in this case.
 
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#139
hhalt said:
The pianist is actually playing an Ab13 chord-- Gb Bb C F, and in this context it would function as a lydian dominant chord (#11). You can hear it clearly during the guitar solo, and it actually goes for 2 bars. Also the 10th bar is an F#7#11-to me the coolest chord in the tune! A secondary dom going to the iv chord(V/iv). Never trust a real book! And yes, Ron Carter can play whatever he wants because he is Ron Carter!! And by the way, to keep to the topic you can write them as slash chords- Bb/Ab7. (voicing specific to get 9, #11, 13). I prefer Ab13#11 in this case.
Click to expand...
That would be a polychord:
Bb
----
Ab7

A slash chord has only a single note in the bass.
 

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