• TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
    Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
    Join freeLog in
    Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.

Help me with my left hand technique.

That video is how I was taught. It looks great to me. Your thumb should not be doing any work, unless you are barring or something exotic like that.

As for hand size, in high school, the first bass player was a 5' tall woman with hands maybe 2/3rds the size of mine, and she could play circles around me. Bigger hands probably helps a bit, but not that much.
 
  • Like
Reactions: static0verdrive
I'm learning to incorporate a couple of different approaches. The first is to use fingers 1-2-4 (you will see it referred to as 1-2-4 in discussions). With this technique, those three fingers cover three frets in any one position up to around the seventh fret when the frets are closer together. After that, the third (ring finger) can come more comfortably into play.

The main concept is for the 1-2-4 fingers to do the bulk of the grooving in any case (the root, 3rd and 5th/octave) with these fingers, and use 3rd finger for lighter work (passing tones, scalar and solo passages). This is advocated by studio legend Carol Kaye, and is also taught by educator Ed Friedland to name two and is a carryover from double bass technique.

The other technique is called "one finger per fret" (OFPF). This is pretty much done how is sounds. It is helpful when using universal fingering scale pattern---that is, movable patterns which cover four frets per position. I think the important thing with this technique is not to hold your hand like a claw with fingers spread. For example, don't hold the index in place and stretch to reach another note with the pinky. Let go with the unused finger and use the wrist to pivot to the higher note.

1-2-4 and OFPF are not mutually exclusive techniques. They can be mixed and matched. Just avoid straining.

The player in that Fender P video seems less like a OFPF example than an example of muting in the style of Rocco Prestia who would keep all of his fingers in light contact with the string and press when needed to fret. Great for staccato, syncopated lines.
I LOVE this post. I use 1-2-4 but I do sneak in my ring finger when it's appropriate. Either the line is nearly impossible without it or I'm high enough up the neck where I don't have to stretch. All in all, practice slowly and properly - speed comes on it's own as a result of repetition. Practicing any technique quickly (but probably crappy) will only result in you being able to do it faster later, but still crappy.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Sartori
Regarding thumb - I was taught not to use it... no squeezing or anything. It is just there as a "placeholder" to remind me where the root is if I have to pivot up a little higher, but there's no required angle or anything. It's only lightly touching the back of the neck and - let's say I'm playing in A, so 5th fret of the E string - it would sit just behind the 5th fret with very very little pressure. Really just resting. I pretend there's a thumbtack (no pun intended) through my thumbnail and rotate on that to reach 7th or 8th frets so that I'm not stretching my hand or any fingers. Always relaxed, always holding the beer in terms of overall hand shape (edit: with the exception of the brief moments I've rotated - then it looks more like I'm giving a thumbs-up while holding a beer). At first it felt like I needed the thumb to help squeeze the string down to the fret, but my teacher insisted I instead use pressure from my RIGHT (plucking) wrist on the body to provide that push back that some try to use their left thumb for. Hope that helps.

Also, for both wrists, make sure you aren't holding the bass with the neck parallel to the floor - it should be up by almost 45 degrees so that (both, but let's say) your fretting wrist isn't bent all outta shape.
 
Last edited:
One word: Permutations.

Permutations are practice exercises where you play each possible combination of fingerings (using each finger once in a series of 4) on each string. (You can also modify permutations so that your fingers move between strings.) For example:

The numbers correspond to the fingers:
1 = Index Finger
2 = Middle Finger
3 = Ring Finger
4 = Pinkie

The permutations are (separated by commas):
Starting on finger 1
1234, 1243, 1324, 1342, 1423, 1432

Starting on finger 2
2134, 2143, 2314, 2341, 2413, 2431

Starting on finger 3
3124, 3142. 3214, 3241, 3412, 3421

Starting on finger 4
4123, 4132, 4213, 4231, 4312, 4321

When I do this, I begin on the E string. I play all the permutations that begin with finger 1 on E, then A, then D and finally G - 8 times on each string (1234 x 8 on E, 1234 x 8 on A, ... then 1243 x 8 on E, 1243 x 8 on A, ...). Then I play all the permutations that begin with finger 2 on E, and repeat. Takes me about 15 minutes to go through all of them. This has actually become my standard "warm-up" when I play or practice.
 
TL;DR: Find a teacher and set up a few lessons.

--------------------------------------------------------------------

What everyone said regarding your thumb. Start by sitting down with your bass in a playing position, then adjust your strap to have your bass at the same height (when standing up) than when you were sitting. This is usually a very good place to start, posture-wise.

Also, +1 on setting up a few lessons with a reputable teacher in your area. Bad habits are hard to get rid of and formal lessons give you the extra bit of discipline you might need for this.

As a few others have mentioned, personally I favour the 1-2-4 (or Simandl) approach, where you use your pinky and ring fingers together, over the "one-finger-per-fret" (OFPF) one. I only use OFPF when I go higher up the neck where the shorter distances would make the 1-2-4 approach impractical, or when doing a fast lick during a solo. This could help minimize fret buzzing - your pinky alone is pretty weak. Also, I don't know if you're already doing this or not, but if you're going up chromatically on a string, don't lift the other fingers from the string as you go up - leave 'em there unless you really need them somewhere else. Ex: If you're holding a note with your index finger, then need to go up a half step, fret the note with your middle finger but leave your index where it is, behind your middle finger one fret behind - this will give you more strength, and again, help minimize string noise / buzz.

I was mostly self-taught on bass guitar and didn't pay attention to these things for years, and then I learned to play upright and these little things became the key to survival! I apply them to bass guitar now and my playing has improved noticeably.

Good luck and happy woodsheddin' !

:thumbsup:
 
How you move around the neck depends on a lot of things. I have huge hands, but even I do more shifts than a lot of folks, and one finger per fret doesn't work for me down low. Getting fluid in th left hand is not something that one lesson or a couple of hints are going to solve. A lot of time spent working on how to get around on this song, that song, etc.m ad trying different positions and transitions between strings is what has payed off for me. Been doing this a very long time, and I'm still learning how to get around more efficiently.
 
This picture is how I'm comfortable fretting. If I try the way you suggest, I get pain in my wrist. I could wear the bass under my neck to make it more comfortable, but that's not happening.


FR10f

Based on this pic I'd say what's causing the pinky noise is a leverage issue caused by your thumb being in that position. I'd suggest trying to get your thumb a bit straighter and more under your 1'st and 2nd finger. My thumb ends up more straight to the back of the neck and more perpendicular if that makes sense.
 
There are some obviously bad approaches that you can take to left hand technique (including position, alignment, fingering choices...), but there are also several potential "good" approaches that you can take -- these will depend to some degree on your physiology (how big your hand is, how flexible, how long and how even in length your fingers are, how broad your palm is across the knuckles) and to a great degree on your implementation of them. If you have, as you say, established a solid floating-thumb technique with your right hand (no mean feat), then you are capable of practicing to establish a solid left hand technique.

I said "potential 'good'" rather than simply "good" approaches, above, because you can make a perfectly valid technique bad if you approach it in the wrong way. I'm not going to talk about specifics of technique, but I will suggest a few things to focus on as you practice whatever approach you decide on as best for you:

1) Balance 2) Efficiency 3) Static Comfort 4) Fluidity/Flow

1) Balance: As you fret a note, your left hand should feel balanced on that finger -- you should feel that you can easily establish an equal amount of weight on any one of the four fingers without your hand straining or wanting to collapse to one side or the other. At the same time...

2) Efficiency: It's possible to hold one note and have your hand balanced in a position that will make it impractical to move to another note with any speed. You don't want "flying fingers" or excessive rotation/flopping about, but you don't want to lock your hand in an uncomfortable position, either. In the video posted of Sean Hurley demoing the P-bass, he looks very comfortable and efficient in his movements. He is barely moving his fingers (someone mentioned Rocco Prestia). I don't know that that's practical for every style of play (I suspect that you'd see some differences if he was playing more melodic, sustained stuff), but what he's doing nicely shows a comfortable left-hand set without a lot of unnecessary movement. At the same time, if you study what he's doing closely, you'll note that he's not holding his left hand rigidly in one alignment or one shape -- there are subtle expansions and contractions of the hand and some rotation of the wrist as he goes for different things. This leads into 3) and 4)...

3) Static Comfort: You can practice something I've heard called "posing" with reference to bowed string technique. Try playing through something (not too fast) and stopping yourself -- as if someone shouted, "Freeze!" -- at various points. Check your alignment. Is this position comfortable, or do you want to get out of it as quickly as possible? If the latter, see what you can do to fix it. Then incorporate it back into the movement (rinse and repeat)...

4) Fluidity/Flow: Whatever you do with 1) and 3) has to make sense with 2) and 4). If you're practicing something that you're going to play fast, practice it slowly, but practice it with the technique that you'll need in order to make it happen quickly. If I'm playing a melodic line and land, with my 3rd finger, on a long G at the 12th fret, I might lift up all my other fingers and employ some vibrato. This makes sense in that context. It doesn't make sense in the context of breaking down a tricky run. In the latter case, I'll practice slowly, but I'll try to employ the same efficient, "low-to-the-ground" movements I'll employ when (I hope) I'm playing the run at full tempo. So far, this sounds a lot like 2). They are closely related and could perhaps have been combined into one point, but the emphasis here is on focusing on how each movement leads/flows into the next. You could say that the focus is on transitions (including through the "in-between" movements and positions), from one finger to the next, one chord to the next, one position to the next -- and making sure you iron out any wrinkles that you find (see point 3) and that everything flows as smoothly as you can make it.

Everything above relates to everything else, and none if it is intended to be dogma -- you could as easily condense it to one or two points or expand it to ten -- and you can certainly overthink it. I just thought about what I focus on in my own technical practice (when I'm disciplined enough to really practice as opposed to just play stuff) and this seemed a logical way to break it down into areas of focus.

A good teacher can help speed along the above process a great deal and can help you avoid potential minefields/missteps. Even with a good teacher, though, you have to practice and you have to develop some capacity for self-correction.

Emphasis on good teacher, by the way. There are plenty of bad doctors, and they all had to go through years of schooling and pass a presumably stringent certification process to do what they do. There is no such requirement to give bass lessons -- as always, pay attention and use your judgment.

Good luck, and have fun.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: lowfreqgeek
There are some obviously bad approaches that you can take to left hand technique (including position, alignment, fingering choices...), but there are also several potential "good" approaches that you can take -- these will depend to some degree on your physiology (how big your hand is, how flexible, how long and how even in length your fingers are, how broad your palm is across the knuckles) and to a great degree on your implementation of them. If you have, as you say, established a solid floating-thumb technique with your right hand (no mean feat), then you are capable of practicing to establish a solid left hand technique.

I said "potential 'good'" rather than simply "good" approaches, above, because you can make a perfectly valid technique bad if you approach it in the wrong way. I'm not going to talk about specifics of technique, but I will suggest a few things to focus on as you practice whatever approach you decide on as best for you:

1) Balance 2) Efficiency 3) Static Comfort 4) Fluidity/Flow

1) Balance: As you fret a note, your left hand should feel balanced on that finger -- you should feel that you can easily establish an equal amount of weight on any one of the four fingers without your hand straining or wanting to collapse to one side or the other. At the same time...

2) Efficiency: It's possible to hold one note and have your hand balanced in a position that will make it impractical to move to another note with any speed. You don't want "flying fingers" or excessive rotation/flopping about, but you don't want to lock your hand in an uncomfortable position, either. In the video posted of Sean Hurley demoing the P-bass, he looks very comfortable and efficient in his movements. He is barely moving his fingers (someone mentioned Rocco Prestia). I don't know that that's practical for every style of play (I suspect that you'd see some differences if he was playing more melodic, sustained stuff), but what he's doing nicely shows a comfortable left-hand set without a lot of unnecessary movement. At the same time, if you study what he's doing closely, you'll note that he's not holding his left hand rigidly in one alignment or one shape -- there are subtle expansions and contractions of the hand and some rotation of the wrist as he goes for different things. This leads into 3) and 4)...

3) Static Comfort: You can practice something I've heard called "posing" with reference to bowed string technique. Try playing through something (not too fast) and stopping yourself -- as if someone shouted, "Freeze!" -- at various points. Check your alignment. Is this position comfortable, or do you want to get out of it as quickly as possible? If the latter, see what you can do to fix it. Then incorporate it back into the movement (rinse and repeat)...

4) Fluidity/Flow: Whatever you do with 1) and 3) has to make sense with 2) and 4). If you're practicing something that you're going to play fast, practice it slowly, but practice it with the technique that you'll need in order to make it happen quickly. If I'm playing a melodic line and land, with my 3rd finger, on a long G at the 12th fret, I might lift up all my other fingers and employ some vibrato. This makes sense in that context. It doesn't make sense in the context of breaking down a tricky run. In the latter case, I'll practice slowly, but I'll try to employ the same efficient, "low-to-the-ground" movements I'll employ when (I hope) I'm playing the run at full tempo. So far, this sounds a lot like 2). They are closely related and could perhaps have been combined into one point, but the emphasis here is on focusing on how each movement leads/flows into the next. You could say that the focus is on transitions (including through the "in-between" movements and positions), from one finger to the next, one chord to the next, one position to the next -- and making sure you iron out any wrinkles that you find (see point 3) and that everything flows as smoothly as you can make it.

Everything above relates to everything else, and none if it is intended to be dogma -- you could as easily condense it to one or two points or expand it to ten -- and you can certainly overthink it. I just thought about what I focus on in my own technical practice (when I'm disciplined enough to really practice as opposed to just play stuff) and this seemed a logical way to break it down into areas of focus.

A good teacher can help speed along the above process a great deal and can help you avoid potential minefields/missteps. Even with a good teacher, though, you have to practice and you have to develop some capacity for self-correction.

Emphasis on good teacher, by the way. There are plenty of bad doctors, and they all had to go through years of schooling and pass a presumably stringent certification process to do what they do. There is no such requirement to give bass lessons -- as always, pay attention and use your judgment.

Good luck, and have fun.

You made some excellent points I had no idea about. Thanks!
 
To some extent, the technique you use depends on the kind of music you want to play. If you want to play technical fast runs, then I would look for a good teacher, i.e. one who can guide you through efficiency and avoiding strain.

The most important part of left hand technique for me is to play without strain, such that I could gig for 4 hours straight without suffering. So I would analyze my technique as so:

  1. Fret with precision: just behind the fret to minimize the pressure needed to sound a note cleanly.
  2. Align the hand so that pressure is applied along the length of the finger. Imagine, and this is more of a mental exercise, that there is one smooth curve going from your back, through your shoulder and the length of your arm to the tip of your finger. Prefer to move the elbow to get the hand in the right place rather than bending the wrist or extending/contracting fingers.
  3. I avoid reaching or "grabbing" for notes and prefer to shift. You could try playing e.g. major scales up and down one string as smoothly as possible with minimum wrist pivoting or finger stretching.
  4. Play each note (or each phrase) with intention. Mostly this just means getting the mind, the right hand and the left hand all to work together. This comes from me observing that I used to try to "play" a note with the left hand alone, which resulted in all the bad things - tension, strain, sloppy time etc.
To this I would add do consider moving your thumb closer to your middle finger. This feels to me when I play as if all the fingers are equal partners.

If you noticed, I did not mention 1-2-4, finger per string or any other fingering system. If that is important to you, then I would suggest a teacher, or at least a good book. My main focus nowadays is efficiency and avoiding injury.

Hope this helps.
 
As for hand size, in high school, the first bass player was a 5' tall woman with hands maybe 2/3rds the size of mine, and she could play circles around me. Bigger hands probably helps a bit, but not that much.
Watch a really good string bass player. They will play circles around most electric players. Hand size is probably the least important factor in good technique. One of my teachers had short stubby fingers and he was a monster player.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Gaolee
One word: Permutations.

Permutations are practice exercises where you play each possible combination of fingerings (using each finger once in a series of 4) on each string. (You can also modify permutations so that your fingers move between strings.) For example:

The numbers correspond to the fingers:
1 = Index Finger
2 = Middle Finger
3 = Ring Finger
4 = Pinkie

The permutations are (separated by commas):
Starting on finger 1
1234, 1243, 1324, 1342, 1423, 1432

Starting on finger 2
2134, 2143, 2314, 2341, 2413, 2431

Starting on finger 3
3124, 3142. 3214, 3241, 3412, 3421

Starting on finger 4
4123, 4132, 4213, 4231, 4312, 4321

When I do this, I begin on the E string. I play all the permutations that begin with finger 1 on E, then A, then D and finally G - 8 times on each string (1234 x 8 on E, 1234 x 8 on A, ... then 1243 x 8 on E, 1243 x 8 on A, ...). Then I play all the permutations that begin with finger 2 on E, and repeat. Takes me about 15 minutes to go through all of them. This has actually become my standard "warm-up" when I play or practice.

That is actually a good exercise when I am messing with the Kala UBass on the couch watching a movie. I have done other things but this sounds like fun. Thanks for adding this.
 
All the info in this thread is valid, but does it apply to you?
Check out the video link for some ideas that may help sort out what is best for you.
any questions, from anyone, on the content, please post and i will help if i can.


 
To some extent, the technique you use depends on the kind of music you want to play. If you want to play technical fast runs, then I would look for a good teacher, i.e. one who can guide you through efficiency and avoiding strain.

The most important part of left hand technique for me is to play without strain, such that I could gig for 4 hours straight without suffering. So I would analyze my technique as so:

  1. Fret with precision: just behind the fret to minimize the pressure needed to sound a note cleanly.
  2. Align the hand so that pressure is applied along the length of the finger. Imagine, and this is more of a mental exercise, that there is one smooth curve going from your back, through your shoulder and the length of your arm to the tip of your finger. Prefer to move the elbow to get the hand in the right place rather than bending the wrist or extending/contracting fingers.
  3. I avoid reaching or "grabbing" for notes and prefer to shift. You could try playing e.g. major scales up and down one string as smoothly as possible with minimum wrist pivoting or finger stretching.
  4. Play each note (or each phrase) with intention. Mostly this just means getting the mind, the right hand and the left hand all to work together. This comes from me observing that I used to try to "play" a note with the left hand alone, which resulted in all the bad things - tension, strain, sloppy time etc.
To this I would add do consider moving your thumb closer to your middle finger. This feels to me when I play as if all the fingers are equal partners.

If you noticed, I did not mention 1-2-4, finger per string or any other fingering system. If that is important to you, then I would suggest a teacher, or at least a good book. My main focus nowadays is efficiency and avoiding injury.

Hope this helps.

Some good ideas...
 
All the info in this thread is valid, but does it apply to you?
Check out the video link for some ideas that may help sort out what is best for you.
any questions, from anyone, on the content, please post and i will help if i can.




Well, this certainly throws a new idea in the mix. I will have to give this a try when I get the chance.

Also, I like how you address the double bass ergonomics. That crossed my mind last night. It's a totally different thing than electric, but it seems people want to equate the two for hand position. I'm not quite sold on that yet. Thanks, Fergie!
 
  • Like
Reactions: Fergie Fulton