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Help me with my rig fellow low-enders!

Which would be a more effective upgrade

  • Upgrade 610hlf SLM era (recommendations)

    Votes: 9 52.9%

  • Upgrade from V4B Reissue to SVT-CL

    Votes: 8 47.1%
  • Total voters
    17
  • Poll closed .
FIREpunkMEDIC

FIREpunkMEDIC

Jun 2, 2017
149
170
#1
Hey all!
So, I'm struggling with my rig and wondering which you'd recommend. I am currently running an ampeg V4B Reissue into a USA SLM Ampeg svt-610hlf. The volume is isbt an issue, but what I'm finding is my low end is not clear and punchy. Mids and highs are VERY present which is awesome but at our last gig it was hard to discern my low notes. We play in a pop-punk/power pop inspired cover band. Think Me First and The Gimme Gimmes but more current songs and female vocals. Playing a custom PJ (mainly just on P pickup) with Fralin overr wound pups. Would you say upgrade to an SVT-CL OR invest in a cab upgrade first?

Cheers everyone...
 
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#3
In my experience, 100w is great for volume needs, but when trying to get the amp push the lower EQ, you need more watts. The suggestion above of using a HPF may help clear up the low end, but the SVT-CL will also help as well.

When I had an Ampeg 410HLF, there was a definite difference going from my 100w to 300w tube amp in terms of producing the full lower end with heft and punch. I also noticed a noticeable difference in hearing clear lows using a 500w class D amp. Those extra watts feels like it pushes the cab from a brisk walk to full sprint!
 
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#4
Are you pushing the V4B into output drive? This can cause the low end to mush out. Do you like the sound at lower volume? If yes to both questions, an SVT might be a good choice.


If no, then you might benefit from a speaker with a different type of voicing. Maybe you don't really like the traditional Ampeg sound.

Another possibility is you simply need to change your expectations. It's very difficult to get the exact bass sound we want live. This is due to degradation caused by the acoustic environment.

One possible way to mitigate acoustic degradation is to get your cab up in the air and make sure it's aiming the highs at your ears. Low frequencies tend to be omni-directional. But as the frequency goes higher, the dispersion will narrow. So if the cab is on the floor and you are close to it, higher frequencies will shoot by below ear level; meaning you won't hear the direct sound from the cab. This approach works well for me, but some bassists don't like to hear the highs.
 
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#6
Wasnex said:
Are you pushing the V4B into output drive? This can cause the low end to mush out. Do you like the sound at lower volume? If yes to both questions, an SVT might be a good choice.

All good insight. I moved to a 6x10 to get 2 of the 10s up higher. I love the ampeg tone, so I'm guessing that the amount of power needed for low end and volume I'm running at may be top much for 100w. Hence debating the SVT which, is heavy as hell but...so damn good.

If no, then you might benefit from a speaker with a different type of voicing. Maybe you don't really like the traditional Ampeg sound.

Another possibility is you simply need to change your expectations. It's very difficult to get the exact bass sound we want live. This is due to degradation caused by the acoustic environment.

One possible way to mitigate acoustic degradation is to get your cab up in the air and make sure it's aiming the highs at your ears. Low frequencies tend to be omni-directional. But as the frequency goes higher, the dispersion will narrow. So if the cab is on the floor and you are close to it, higher frequencies will shoot by below ear level; meaning you won't hear the direct sound from the cab. This approach works well for me, but some bassists don't like to hear the highs.
Click to expand...
 
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#11
+1 to @JimmyM's comment. In addition:
I have a 72' V4B and while it sounds like butter drippin' off a hot biscuit (and mine smells like an old pinball machine when it warms up! :cool:), it doesn't have the same low end immediacy of my Shuttle 6.0 or Ampeg PF500. If you know anyone that has a solid state or even better, class D cause they're super light, that might be worth trying out as well. That'll give you an idea if more power and solid state helps. And if that solves the problem, it would save you on having to schlep an 80lb amp to gigs.

I do also agree with @Marko 1 that a high pass filter would probably be a worthy experiment as well. I'm on an IEM setup with a HX Stomp based board, and I still run a HPF at 38Hz to cut out The Woofies. :thumbsup:

5sg.
 
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#12
FIREpunkMEDIC said:
Hey all!
So, I'm struggling with my rig and wondering which you'd recommend. I am currently running an ampeg V4B Reissue into a USA SLM Ampeg svt-610hlf. The volume is isbt an issue, but what I'm finding is my low end is not clear and punchy. Mids and highs are VERY present which is awesome but at our last gig it was hard to discern my low notes. We play in a pop-punk/power pop inspired cover band. Think Me First and The Gimme Gimmes but more current songs and female vocals. Playing a custom PJ (mainly just on P pickup) with Fralin overr wound pups. Would you say upgrade to an SVT-CL OR invest in a cab upgrade first?

Cheers everyone...
Click to expand...

Although this may be counter intuitive , your EQ may have too much bass, and not enough low mids, like around !65 hz.
 
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#14
Change the cab. But the issue is since you have a wide head, you’re kinda limited to a 410, or something that’s wide, so your amp doesn’t look like a wet cat head on a slim jim. So you need a new head. lol. I have no idea what your current home economy is, but here’s what I’d do

$500-700. Id be looking for a used Aguilar TH500 or 700. Very tube amp sounding. Plenty of volume and power to handle just about any gig. I’m fond of the 500. But that’s just me. I’ve used one for over a decade. I’ve seen a lot of “big name” touring acts use this amp as well. It’s legit.

$750-1000 for a new cab/cab pair that’s a bit more modular/compact. I’d be looking for an Aguilar DB410, DB212, or DB112 pair…..anything Bergantino. NV212T comes to mind. But the NV212 needs some power so get the TH700. If you can find an AE410, that’s a match made in heaven with the Aguilar TH500/700. I can go on and on about cabs. But the point is with a smaller head, your cab choices open up. You’re not limited to big *** cabs because you’re running a big *** tube amp.

If you’re dead set on keeping the V4…then you have a few limited options, all Bergantino. Berg NV610, NV215, NV412, a pair of NV115’s, or a pair NV212s. If you can find these cabs, expect to pay 1500 for fridge style cabs or the modular pairs. But, my motto is cry once by once. Either one of the aforementioned cab choices will open up your V4 in ways you’ve never imagined. They are amazing cabs and a no brainer if you’re using a V4 or SVT

I’ve owned some of these cabs and still own a few of them. I have a pair of NV212T’s, an AE410, and a pair of REF112’s. I have several amps from class d (TH500) to a SVT. They all have their place. But I’m fortunate where I’m able to have “extra gear” for the sake of having extra gear. If I was limited on funds and resources, I’d be Aguilar TH500 with my cab of choice all day long.
 
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#17
Those HLF cabs kick out way too much sloppy lows, imho. I would echo those saying to try a variable high pass filter pedal first, and you probably need to set it higher than you think, in like the 60 to 80 hz range, I would guess for the sweet spot. Then more of your 100 watts will go toward mix friendly frequencies instead of just brown noise.
 
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#18
As someone who ran that cab with an SVT350H for years playing the same type of music you are describing, the cab should be fine for that. Not sure why people are suggesting getting a different cab.

Would echo the idea to pull out some of the bass and let the low-mids have their say. Try EQ pedal or a Sansamp to articulate more.

Does it have that sound everywhere or just where you are practicing? Where you have it in the room may be giving you that sound...

*edit to add*

Don't forget those ports exist...
 
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#19
Low notes take the most power so upgrade the head. 100W is not enough low frequency clean headroom for bass at stage levels. And for the "these are tube watts" crowd, that just means it can get to ~150W while outputting massive THD. Would you gig a 150W class D head in a punk band :wideyed:
 
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#20
You all are f'n awesome some really great advice here! I love ampeg tone, so I'm gonna try messing around with eq a bit before I cange anything up. If I upgrade to an SVT-CL I would probably also keep the V4BRI for "smaller" gigs and recording purposes. There's also a Femder Neo 6x10 being sold locally that has sparked my curiosity, my other thought being maybe a 212av? Though I fear with a 212 there maybe some volume loss and be counter productive?
 

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