Help me with this Rickenbacker

[farace]

I will assume that's a bad thing, but it still sounds pretty great so I'm okay with it.

It’s only a bad thing if you want the vintage sound, in which case you could easily replace the cap. I’ve not done a poll, but my sense is that most, but not all, people prefer the straight wire and the full bass that it provides. You can also install the push-pull pot that Ric installs on current production instruments and be able to choose between the two. That’s what I did on my ‘83.

 

[Komadinic]

It’s only a bad thing if you want the vintage sound, in which case you could easily replace the cap. I’ve not done a poll, but my sense is that most, but not all, people prefer the straight wire and the full bass that it provides. You can also install the push-pull pot that Ric installs on current production instruments and be able to choose between the two. That’s what I did on my ‘83.

Do you by any chance know the name of the capacitor? I'd prefer to return it to original state, it's not hard to wrap a wire around it

 

[farace]

Do you by any chance know the name of the capacitor? I'd prefer to return it to original state, it's not hard to wrap a wire around it

It’s C3 on this schematic, .0047mfd.

 

[Komadinic]

It’s C3 on this schematic, .0047mfd.

View attachment 3850814

Thank you!

 

[mikecd1]

I will assume that's a bad thing, but it still sounds pretty great so I'm okay with it.

If you put it back to original the sound will be thinner as that cap bleeds off the bottom end as old school amps couldn't handle the power of this pickup. Rickenbacker came out with the push pull pot that all the 40003's have now so you could have both sounds, but since you're using it "wide open" now I'll bet you a mountain dew that you won't like the thin sound as much as the full sound I'd probably still have my 72 Rick today if I'd known about removing that cap. The thin sound was one of the reasons I got rid of my Rick after 25 years. Just my 2cents, but unless you do a push pull switch in there I'm betting that mountain dew that you'll remove that cap if you put it in

 

[Komadinic]

Hey all so I have an update. I just spoke to Darrell Gilbert for a while and I'm taking it to him tomorrow. He was guitar tech for Steve from Yes and he has many, many years of experience under his belt and told me that he knows the issue i'm talking about without even needing to see the bass, apparently it's a common thing and it happened on his Rick's in the past. He will remove the truss rods and heat treat the neck to get the angle right and then put back the rods and tighten them up. I asked if this is a permanent solution to the issue and he said it is, he did it on his bass over 25 years ago and the neck didn't move an inch. Sounds like a really nice guy and definitely a knowledgeable luthier and I feel this is the best way to go because I don't wanna hurt this instrument in any way. Thanks for all the answers and efforts, I will keep you posted once he fixes it and share pics and the story so that hopefully someone who has this issue in the future can fix it as well!

 

[bobyoung53]

I will assume that's a bad thing, but it still sounds pretty great so I'm okay with it.

No it's a good thing, the caps suck the life out of those things, makes them very scooped, that does look like a different kind of wire, the cap was discontinued sometime in late 1984 though.

 

[bobyoung53]

Hey all so I have an update. I just spoke to Darrell Gilbert for a while and I'm taking it to him tomorrow. He was guitar tech for Steve from Yes and he has many, many years of experience under his belt and told me that he knows the issue i'm talking about without even needing to see the bass, apparently it's a common thing and it happened on his Rick's in the past. He will remove the truss rods and heat treat the neck to get the angle right and then put back the rods and tighten them up. I asked if this is a permanent solution to the issue and he said it is, he did it on his bass over 25 years ago and the neck didn't move an inch. Sounds like a really nice guy and definitely a knowledgeable luthier and I feel this is the best way to go because I don't wanna hurt this instrument in any way. Thanks for all the answers and efforts, I will keep you posted once he fixes it and share pics and the story so that hopefully someone who has this issue in the future can fix it as well!

Congratulations, that sounds great. Do keep us posted.

 

[prowla]

Well Sam is right FYI, the pickup cover is definitely magnetic cause my screwdriver top stuck to it. Am i supposed to charge it or something?

That's not really a test.
Sure the fake horseshoe will propagate magnetism, but it's not a magnet itself.
You can see the effect by holding a magnet to a screwdriver and using it to pick up a screw; if you then take the magnet away the screw will fall off.
On the original horseshoe, the horseshoe itself is a magnet.
The only way you could satisfy yourself for sure is to remove one of the horseshoes and see if it is a magnet in its own right.

 

[prowla]

That was a a eureka moment for me the first time I bypassed that silly cap (don't shoot me!), I bought a brand new one in 1977 and jacked up the bridge pickup to try to get it to sound more full range but all it did was make it middy, I eventually gave it to someone I owed money to and didn't buy another one until sometime in 1990. I finally found out about the cap bypass mod during the early 2000's, what a difference. I actually figured out a way to make one of the tone controls become a cap control using the other tone control as a master tone. You could dial in as much or as little cap as you wanted to but if you dropped the volumes down it drained treble so it never caught on. I sold a 1978 Azureglo Ric 4001 with this mod in it about 15 years ago so if anyone here has one like it, it's most likely mine because no one else that I know of ever tried the mod.

Back in the 80s I wired a mini switch to mine to do a bypass, so I could have the cap in or out. Rics now have a push-pull tone pot to do that, which is an invisible mod.
I also had a couple more switches: one for a humbucker I had in the treble position and one to switch in a pickup I had in the treble mute bay.

(I know now it is sacrilege to muck about with a vintage Ric, but it wasn't a vintage Ric back in the 80s when I did it...)

 

[prowla]

This is what a 1964 RM1999 Ric sounds like with flats on it. Pete Quaife of the Kinks was the first player to buy one of these in England, 2nd was John Entwistle, then Chris Squire, those basses were pretty much identical to yours. It's in the picture but you can only see it from the side. Francis Hall gave McCartney a 4001S which were also pretty much identical in, (I think) 1965. I don't there is a difference between RM1999's and 4001S's.

There isn't a difference between the contemporary 4001S and the RM1999; it's just that Rose Morris imported them under their catalogue number.
Here's a Jan '64 4001S (which pre-dates the RM deal).

It was originally FG, but was oversprayed in the 1970s.
(At one point it was wired stereo and the jack plate appears to be on the wrong way 'round!)

 

[prowla]

If you put it back to original the sound will be thinner as that cap bleeds off the bottom end as old school amps couldn't handle the power of this pickup. Rickenbacker came out with the push pull pot that all the 40003's have now so you could have both sounds, but since you're using it "wide open" now I'll bet you a mountain dew that you won't like the thin sound as much as the full sound I'd probably still have my 72 Rick today if I'd known about removing that cap. The thin sound was one of the reasons I got rid of my Rick after 25 years. Just my 2cents, but unless you do a push pull switch in there I'm betting that mountain dew that you'll remove that cap if you put it in

No it's a good thing, the caps suck the life out of those things, makes them very scooped, that does look like a different kind of wire, the cap was discontinued sometime in late 1984 though.

There was a fashion for removing the cap at one point and RIC discontinued it for a period.

But then other people wanted it back, so RIC reintroduced it with the Vintage/Modern push-pull switch which persists to this day.

Me, I like the option and I have it on my '78 4001 and 4003 basses.

When I switch in the treble series cap on my 2010 4003, I go "Ah: the Chris Squire sound...".

With the cap in circuit, you have to think of the pickups as working together,rather than how loud one is vs. the other.
I used to angle my pickups, with the treble one sloped towards the E and the neck one towards the G; this accentuated the tonal differences as you move up the neck, but did mean I could only really use both pickups together.

 

[Komadinic]

That's not really a test.
Sure the fake horseshoe will propagate magnetism, but it's not a magnet itself.
You can see the effect by holding a magnet to a screwdriver and using it to pick up a screw; if you then take the magnet away the screw will fall off.
On the original horseshoe, the horseshoe itself is a magnet.
The only way you could satisfy yourself for sure is to remove one of the horseshoes and see if it is a magnet in its own right.

You can see screws instead of alnicos. Every source online claims they did make first run with magnetic ones, sent a message to Paul as well who confirmed this and my luthier did. Ever since page 3 you've been set on disproving me, not sure why it matter so much to you but it doesn't matter enough to me to argue over. If it's not the magnetic one it sure sounds nice

 

[Jeff Scott]

View attachment 3859360

That a magnetic HS PU.

 

[bobyoung53]

Back in the 80s I wired a mini switch to mine to do a bypass, so I could have the cap in or out. Rics now have a push-pull tone pot to do that, which is an invisible mod.
I also had a couple more switches: one for a humbucker I had in the treble position and one to switch in a pickup I had in the treble mute bay.View attachment 3859248
(I know now it is sacrilege to muck about with a vintage Ric, but it wasn't a vintage Ric back in the 80s when I did it...)

Nice bass! Did you cut the pick guard in half yourself or was that an early 4003 pick guard, also did you take the bridge pickup off a 4003 or was it stock? I had a 1972 jetglo 4001FL with checkerboard toaster etc. It had the screw top bridge pickup.

 

[bobyoung53]

There isn't a difference between the contemporary 4001S and the RM1999; it's just that Rose Morris imported them under their catalogue number.
Here's a Jan '64 4001S (which pre-dates the RM deal).
View attachment 3859252
View attachment 3859253
View attachment 3859254
It was originally FG, but was oversprayed in the 1970s.
(At one point it was wired stereo and the jack plate appears to be on the wrong way 'round!)

I thought it was something like that but played it safe, I'd rather be fuzzy than propagate misinformation.
There was a guy in the Rickenbacker Forum who had (has?) an early RM-1999 that had been painted white that had been Maurice Gibbs at one point, his name was Andrew but he had moved to the US.

 

[bobyoung53]

That's not really a test.
Sure the fake horseshoe will propagate magnetism, but it's not a magnet itself.
You can see the effect by holding a magnet to a screwdriver and using it to pick up a screw; if you then take the magnet away the screw will fall off.
On the original horseshoe, the horseshoe itself is a magnet.
The only way you could satisfy yourself for sure is to remove one of the horseshoes and see if it is a magnet in its own right.

Neither of my V-63's propagated magnetism, hold a screwdriver against either one of them and nothing.

 

[bobyoung53]

You can see screws instead of alnicos. Every source online claims they did make first run with magnetic ones, sent a message to Paul as well who confirmed this and my luthier did. Ever since page 3 you've been set on disproving me, not sure why it matter so much to you but it doesn't matter enough to me to argue over. If it's not the magnetic one it sure sounds nice
View attachment 3859360

Did you bring it to that luthier yet?

 

[Komadinic]

Did you bring it to that luthier yet?

Oh yeah it's been there for almost a week. Here's the only picture thus far

 

[bobyoung53]

Oh yeah it's been there for almost a week. Here's the only picture thus far

Good, has he said anything about it? Thinks it's going to work? That's a good picture, I've never known how they heat treated necks. It looks like it's being held only by that clamp on the neck and the weight of the body is helping with the heat treatment.