Help with IEM’s

[NYgiant]

So I was wondering if I could get some information maybe explained in laymans terms here about in ear monitors. Started playing with some people recently and the plan is to not have wedges as monitors, but in ears. Will still have amps and cabs for the instruments., not DI’s.

I honestly don’t know too much about this. I was looking at the Shure PSM300 which is the same price of the 3-10 inch monitors and cords I was going to buy for the PA system. I read that having a stereo mix in ear is a lot better than mono. Here are some questions that have come to mind. I might have some more, but these are the first ones.

1. If there’s only a certain number of outputs on the mixer, do you use a splitter (Y cord) to go to the 2 inputs on the wireless in ear receiver? Is that how stereo works if the receiver is capable?

2. Does each person in the band have to have their own receiver with a cord run to it from the mixer and then a body pack? I’ve seen some receivers being sold with multiple body packs. So if it’s just one receiver, does that mean everybody listens to the same mix?

3. If in fact, everyone needs their own receiver, do they all have to be the same brand and model or can you mix and match? I ask because some people already mentioned having them.

 

[Nuisance]

The board must have an aux send for every person in the band. Otherwise don't bother with IEM's until you have upgraded your mixer. Everyone WILL need their own mix. Splitters are not an option.

Other than that, you have options for wired monitors or wireless monitors. If you don't plan on running around on stage wired MAY be an option to get you all started (it's much cheaper than wireless radios).

The IEM earpices themselves go from $50 to $1500+. I have had VERY good luck with KZ10's. Honestly I liked them better than my 5 driver Shure's as they had better bass response by a long shot.

Edit:

Cheap but effective In Ears: Amazon.com

Inexpensive (but very functional) Wired Monitor Option: Amazon.com

 

[NYgiant]

The board must have an aux send for every person in the band. Otherwise don't bother with IEM's until you have upgraded your mixer. Everyone WILL need their own mix. Splitters are not an option.

Other than that, you have options for wired monitors or wireless monitors. If you don't plan on running around on stage wired MAY be an option to get you all started (it's much cheaper than wireless radios).

The IEM earpices themselves go from $50 to $1500+. I have had VERY good luck with KZ10's. Honestly I liked them better than my 5 driver Shure's as they had better bass response by a long shot.

Edit:

Cheap but effective In Ears: Amazon.com

Inexpensive (but very functional) Wired Monitor Option: Amazon.com

Ok thanks for that. I’m including a picture of the mixer I’m probably going to buy. It looks like it has six, outputs for monitor so that would be enough for each person in the band.

Again, I don’t understand the stereo versus mono. If the wireless receiver has 2 inputs for stereo, but you only have one cord per person coming out of the mixer. That’s why I was asking about the splitter to go into the 2 inputs on the wireless receiver.

So minus the drummer you’re saying each person needs a wireless receiver box and a body pack. Do they all have to be the same brand or can you mix and match?

 

[Nuisance]

Ok thanks for that. I’m including a picture of the mixer. I’m probably going to buy. It looks like it has six, outputs for monitor so that would be enough for each person in the band.

Again, I don’t understand the stereo versus mono. If the wireless receiver has 2 inputs for stereo, but you only have one cord per person coming out of the mixer. That’s why I was asking about the splitter to go into the 2 inputs on the wireless receiver.

That board will be fine. I have the CQ-20 and it has 6 aux sends. With 5 band members we have one to spare.

Edit: Not sure about the stereo question. Most club mixes are in mono, and that's how I mix our band. Most IEM's can handle stereo or mono, but I'm not sure there is an advantage in trying to run them stereo......and I don't know anyone who does.

Edit 2: I would seriously consider the CQ20 with an ipad. Unless you have a full time sound guy it'll be MUCh easier to get in front of the mains and mix with an ipad in your hands.

 

[hrodbert696]

I'd disagree; you don't HAVE to have a separate AUX out from the board for each band member. It's far preferable to do so, but not necessary. If members are willing and can function with a shared mix, then one transmitter can go to multiple receivers (just the same as a radio station; there's one station transmitting but listeners all have their own receivers, and hear the same thing). That's why they sell the sets with multiple receivers. In general, though, it IS much BETTER to have enough channels for each to have their own mix, because usually everyone wants to hear a little more of themselves and the other parts that serve as their references. That's my reply to your question 2.

For the others, question 1: no, since you're looking at wireless, no use for splitters. The Aux channel will itself be stereo, though it will only make a difference if the input channels on your mixer were panned.

3: no, you can't mix and match transmitters and receivers. Each manufacturer's equipment is designed to sync with its counterpart. I guess it might be possible to manually set frequencies to force a receiver from one company to pick up a signal from another company's receiver, but I wouldn't bother. But it's unlikely that your bandmates have their own receivers but not matching transmitters. If what they mean by "I have my own" is that they have their own transmitter/receiver SETS (not just their own earbuds, which are what some people refer to when they talk about IEMs), then each AUX out line from your mixer could go to a different brand/model of transmitter. In Mugshot Monday, I have a Sennheiser system, the singer and the guitarist use Xvives, and the drummer takes a line into a mini-mixer of his own and uses wired earbuds from that.

 

[NYgiant]

by "I have my own" is that they have their own transmitter/receiver SETS (not just their own earbuds, which are what some people refer to when they talk about IEMs), then each AUX out line from your mixer could go to a different brand/model of transmitter. In Mugshot Monday, I have a Sennheiser system, the singer and the guitarist use Xvives, and the drummer takes a line into a mini-mixer of his own and uses wired earbuds from that.

Thanks for your explanation. I think it definitely helps me some. As for the quoted message above, that’s exactly what I was talking about. I think they each have their own body pack and receiver/transmitter (whatever the part is that you run the line to from the mixer). So it seems like you can have multiple different brands/types as long as you’re wearing the body pack model that goes with that brand.

I’m looking at the Shure PSM300 for $899. Not sure if that’s overkill or not. Someone had recommended to me the Xvive U4 for $229. But the look and the price made me a little skeptical.

 

[PiquetBass]

Thanks for your explanation. I think it definitely helps me some. As for the quoted message above, that’s exactly what I was talking about. I think they each have their own body pack and receiver/transmitter (whatever the part is that you run the line to from the mixer). So it seems like you can have multiple different brands/types as long as you’re wearing the body pack model that goes with that brand.

I’m looking at the Shure PSM300 for $899. Not sure if that’s overkill or not. Someone had recommended to me the Xvive U4 for $229. But the look and the price made me a little skeptical.

We use a couple of the Xvive U4 units in my band (my bass IEMs plus one guitarist's IEMs)- they've been faultless (and remain so) throughout their first year of use, and happily run alongside the singer's and second guitarist's "other brand" wireless IEM units. Drummer uses a wired unit.
So you can mix and match brands at will.
They seem quite robust, and the on-board rechargeable batteries last easily through a 3-4 hour gig.

 

[drpepper]

Thanks for your explanation. I think it definitely helps me some. As for the quoted message above, that’s exactly what I was talking about. I think they each have their own body pack and receiver/transmitter (whatever the part is that you run the line to from the mixer). So it seems like you can have multiple different brands/types as long as you’re wearing the body pack model that goes with that brand.

I’m looking at the Shure PSM300 for $899. Not sure if that’s overkill or not. Someone had recommended to me the Xvive U4 for $229. But the look and the price made me a little skeptical.

Do you run your bass wireless?

 

[skyline_01]

That mixer looks PLENTY nice for what you're trying to accomplish, and everyone can have their own mix if desired. And that Shure unit is definitely not overkill if you can swing it. Buy once, cry once.

It looks like that 18T also has wifi for connecting external devices. I run sound from the stage in one of my bands, and being able to set levels beforehand from across the venue is VERY handy. I then use a mic stand tablet holder during the gig so it's right in front of me.

This may have been mentioned, but getting a good seal with IEMs is crucial to their effectiveness. Even lesser-expensive buds can sound really good with the right mix and fit. It looks like that Shure comes with the SE215 set, which may work well enough.

Running in mono is pretty much the norm -- the beltpack receiver should have settings so you can hear mono in both ears.

 

[s0c9]

@NYgiant - STEREO IEM mixes are better - when you have multiples of the same instruments that you need to hear, for example 2 guitars on stage. You can pan them relative to stage location - or to choice. You can't do that with a mono mix.

1. Most rack-mount IEM wireless units have 2 inputs - for stereo. You can run from the AUX into the one marked MONO (usually left side) and the transmitter should automagically put the same signal into each ear. You CAN also run a splitter, but it's NOT needed.

2 and 3 have been answered in prior posts.

I read above "The Aux channel will itself be stereo, though it will only make a difference if the input channels on your mixer were panned."
This is totally false. AUX outputs are ALWAYS MONO. For STEREO IEM mixes, TWO AUX's are required - one feeding each input (L/R) on the IEM transmitter - and the mixer must be set up to LINK the 2 busses. Panning a channel on a single AUX will not work.

 

[tchristian]

Aux sends are mono. A stereo send requires 2 aux sends that are panned.

 

[NYgiant]

We use a couple of the Xvive U4 units in my band (my bass IEMs plus one guitarist's IEMs)- they've been faultless (and remain so) throughout their first year of use, and happily run alongside the singer's and second guitarist's "other brand" wireless IEM units. Drummer uses a wired unit.
So you can mix and match brands at will.
They seem quite robust, and the on-board rechargeable batteries last easily through a 3-4 hour gig.

That’s great to know man, thanks for telling me. Quite the price difference!

Do you run your bass wireless?

Not currently although I think I am leaning that way in the near future. Why?

 

[NYgiant]

That mixer looks PLENTY nice for what you're trying to accomplish, and everyone can have their own mix if desired. And that Shure unit is definitely not overkill if you can swing it. Buy once, cry once.

It looks like that 18T also has wifi for connecting external devices. I run sound from the stage in one of my bands, and being able to set levels beforehand from across the venue is VERY handy. I then use a mic stand tablet holder during the gig so it's right in front of me.

This may have been mentioned, but getting a good seal with IEMs is crucial to their effectiveness. Even lesser-expensive buds can sound really good with the right mix and fit. It looks like that Shure comes with the SE215 set, which may work well enough.

Running in mono is pretty much the norm -- the beltpack receiver should have settings so you can hear mono in both ears.

GREAT info, man. Thank you very much.

 

[74hc]

What you are calling the receiver is the transmitter. The receiver is what you clip onto yourself and plug your IEM into.

 

[74hc]

Edit: Not sure about the stereo question. Most club mixes are in mono, and that's how I mix our band. Most IEM's can handle stereo or mono, but I'm not sure there is an advantage in trying to run them stereo......and I don't know anyone who does.

I don't either. I do take two mix outputs from the FOH, but everything is in mono, or centered not panned. The two mix out channels are tied as well.

 

[NYgiant]

What you are calling the receiver is the transmitter. The receiver is what you clip onto yourself and plug your IEM into.

Thanks for getting me straight! I knew I was wrong. It shows you how confused I am about these, but I’m learning reading everybody’s great comments.

 

[hrodbert696]

I read above "The Aux channel will itself be stereo, though it will only make a difference if the input channels on your mixer were panned."
This is totally false. AUX outputs are ALWAYS MONO. For STEREO IEM mixes, TWO AUX's are required - one feeding each input (L/R) on the IEM transmitter - and the mixer must be set up to LINK the 2 busses. Panning a channel on a single AUX will not work.

Oops, my bad. Thanks for correcting.

 

[drpepper]

Not currently although I think I am leaning that way in the near future. Why?

I ask because it's a somewhat common misconception that wireless IEMs are the only option or that they're inherently superior to wired when it's not necessarily the case that going that route would actually be a benefit on an individual basis.

I think that it can be most helpful to frame the various aspects of IEMs in terms relative advantages (in the value-free sense) and benefits (and their personal value) rather that absolute statements of superiority that usually involve personal preference. When someone is searching for information and hasn't fully considered their needs, wants and preferences or simply doesn't know what they are, it can lead to taking what this person or that person says it "the best" as gospel when it's really an opinion that has equally valid competing opinions.

With wireless versus wired IEMs, the primary advantages of wireless include freedom of movement and ease of setup from gig to gig (assuming rack-mounting). The primary advantages of wired include cost and relative immunity from interference. For someone running their bass wired, there is little to no benefit from the freedom of movement advantage. Obviously if cost is no object, then the cost advantage of wired is of no benefit. The robustness advantage of wired is generally mitigated by spending more money on wireless. Weighing the benefits to make a decision on balance is logical.

Similarly, with stereo vs mono, stereo has the advantage of allowing panning and mono has the advantages of simplicity in setup and use and less use of limited resources (i.e., each stereo mix requires two aux channels). Whether these are benefits (or absolute limitations in the case of number of aux outs) are individual matters.

I've used wireless and wired bass setups, wireless and wired IEMs, and mono and stereo IEM mixes, and I prefer my bass and IEMs wired and, although I have stereo IEM setups, I prefer not to do any panning. I generally only only plug in one aux channel or where I have a stereo mix, I just don't pan.

For me, I'm perfectly happy with wired setups, and on balance, the benefits outweigh the benefits of wireless. In terms of stereo versus mono, I personally am not challenged by trying to locate sound sources or feel that mixes are crowded to begin with, but I also find that panning either does nothing versus centered or I can actually finding distracting in a way where I find the imbalance unpleasant, as if something were wrong with the sound.

Of course, if you're set on going wireless with your bass, it'd be difficult for any weighing to come out on the side of wired IEMs

Here's a video I've shared before

 

[Bullitt5135]

I have been using the Phenyx Pro PTM-22 IEM system for the past 3 years and over 100+ gigs. No issues whatsoever – just the occasional need to change a channel's frequency. Battery life is excellent. They now offer the PTM-33, which has (4) mono units in a single 1U rack. Stock earbuds are lame, so I prefer to use CCA C12 buds instead.

 

[Muttleybass]

1. If there’s only a certain number of outputs on the mixer, do you use a splitter (Y cord) to go to the 2 inputs on the wireless in ear receiver? Is that how stereo works if the receiver is capable?

I suppose you could, but if you're stuck with someone else's mix, you'll hate it. You'll hear nothing but the singer and never be able to hear your own vocals and your bass will be buried. A separate mix is the key to happiness. Most live mixes are mono. I would have to see your in ear unit, but it does seem like it's stereo. I wouldn't worry about that.

2. Does each person in the band have to have their own receiver with a cord run to it from the mixer and then a body pack? I’ve seen some receivers being sold with multiple body packs. So if it’s just one receiver, does that mean everybody listens to the same mix?

You could share a transmitter, but everyone needs their own receiver. I can't see how this would work with a corded system, you would have to be wireless. Again, you'll be stuck with someone else's idea of a mix.

3. If in fact, everyone needs their own receiver, do they all have to be the same brand and model or can you mix and match? I ask because some people already mentioned having them.

The model/brand of receiver has to be the same as the transmitter and on the same channel if you're going to share. This is NOT ideal and not recommended. Did I say that already? I can't stress it enough. If everyone has their own output, then no, they do not have to match.

Like Nuisance, I use a CQ20-B. Before that, I had a Behringer X-Air 18. Both have 6 outputs, so everyone can have their own mix. Even better, they can download an app on their phone to control their own mix.

A less expensive option for in ear monitors is the Xvive U4. 6 channels, robust unit (metal), plugs directly into the board, no batteries... but you need to remember to charge them before a show.