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Double Bass Here I GO!

#41
Scatterblak said:
Don't be a troll - he never said anything about recommending his approach, and I certainly didn't take it as such; I'm just now looking into DB after 30+ years of EB and classical guitar, and while my approach will likely be different, I find the thread illuminating. If you don't like the thread and don't approve, you certainly don't have to read it.
Click to expand...

Thanks Skatterblak!

Again, I'm sharing MY journey into the UB world.

I know my UB is a POS. Trying to mike it proves it! That doesn't mean I don't enjoy playing it, and try and work within it's limitations. It doesn't play in tune with itself (Possibly MY fault), it's not very loud acustically, and it requires me to get a new band equipment mover due to it's size.

That said, When I grab it during a couple sets.. It's all worth it! I play it twice as much as my 5 string..

I had a friend a while ago who restored his Grandmother's 1956 Bel air 4 door Hardtop down to the correct fasteners. All he heard at car shows was "Too bad it's a 4 door"..

Too bad my UB is a super cheezy Chinese Doghouse.. It's working for me!

Some day I'll move to another UB that is better, but I'm OK with where I am now :) I'll be trying the towel trick this weekend.

Skatterblak.. There are better choices out there, again, this is my toe in the UB pool. I will be diving in before long :smug:

Robin
 
#43
Update:

A mike (not used) wrapped in foam wedged under the tail piece, cured the feedback problem. TY for that suggestion! That also stopped the tail piece from rattling on the body.. Double bonus!

The Barcus-Berry drum pickup (now glued to the bridge) had a loose ground connection, that's fixed.

I can go from my P-Bass to the UB (pulling down mids) freely using my Mesa Boogie 750 BB.

I don't practice much on my EB's.. The UB calls! It still has the original strings. My next step is getting a good set of strings on it.

I will say, it's needed to be played to actually sound like a UB. I set it in front of an amp getting feedback to try and "loosen" it up.. and it sounds like it worked! It's actually able to be heard now :)

I know it may self destruct soon enough, or the possible lead paint will kill me, but it's done the job I wanted it to.. Taught me that I can play a UB, and LOVE it!

Robin
 
#45
I also went from EB to DB. I also started on a Chinese which I also set up. My chinese cheapster actually sounds really good. I got a max bass for it.

HOWEVER, the key word is LIMITATIONS.

I have learned to work around the sound limitations, the amplification limitations, the instrument quality limitations, the setup limitations.

A lot of my learning process has gone into making up for those limitations instead. :rollno:

When I am not sure of a gigs set up I take my EB fretless, just in case. That has limited my growth as a DB player.

I play a lot better DB than 3 years ago, but I would play a lot better today had I gone to the luthier to get a setup and ready to play instrument. Regardless of quality.

JUST Dont Do it. Get a decent instrument. I you really cant, take your chinese instrument to a luthier have it set up and get decent amplification for it.

Good enough is not good enough, you ougth to be able to trust your instruments capabilities so you can focus on learning.

my 2 euro cents (lol)
 
#47
Not spending lots of money to play the bass does not make one's desire to play less valid.
I say more power to you Robin for taking reality in your own hands and learning a bit along the way rather than immidiatly bowing down to the dollar.
Not to say spending money on a bass is bad (I hope to) but for at least 90% of living people and 99% of humans who have ever lived spending 2 years worth of food money on an instrument is not an option.
(This is not to say I nessesacarily agree with trade and economic policies which allow for 300$ basses in the first place but thats another story)​
Even though we, people who have access to computers, are the wealthiest to ever live it's great that some still cultivate an attitude that their is always a way. Knowing poorer people all over the world have a better chance of picking up a bass because of these cheap instruments makes me feel good!
 
#48
Menacewarf said:
Not spending lots of money to play the bass does not make one's desire to play less valid.
I say more power to you Robin for taking reality in your own hands and learning a bit along the way rather than immidiatly bowing down to the dollar.
Not to say spending money on a bass is bad (I hope to) but for at least 90% of living people and 99% of humans who have ever lived spending 2 years worth of food money on an instrument is not an option.
(This is not to say I nessesacarily agree with trade and economic policies which allow for 300$ basses in the first place but thats another story)​
Even though we, people who have access to computers, are the wealthiest to ever live it's great that some still cultivate an attitude that their is always a way. Knowing poorer people all over the world have a better chance of picking up a bass because of these cheap instruments makes me feel good!
Click to expand...

thats just my point, is not so much about spending tons of money. Even if you end up with the $300 bass, taking it to the luthier to get it set up right, getting good strings and a suitable pickup, will really NOT cost you that much more, and you might get a decent instrument. So add another $200 - $300 for that.

On the other hand if you go to a luthier you might find that u can get a basic DB already set up for not much more.

Less money just means you have to look around more. ;)

Get an instrument that lets you play

If its true for de EB, why not for the DB?
 
#50
RobinG said:
Happy Holidaze ALL!

I finally got to play a 50's era Kay yesterday.. The second UB I've actually played..

I went into the UB world, knowing I was going to take my own path, and did.

I'll be shaving a LOT of wood from the back of the neck on my UB, and if it breaks.. Lesson learned!

If it doesn't..

Robin
Click to expand...

Shaving the neck to make it thin like that of a Kay? :eek: Before you do, play a few more basses. You'll find that most have substantially thicker necks than a Kay. Then, check the threads here for the discussions regarding skinny vs. thicker necks. For me and many others, those skinny necks lead quickly to fatigue when trying to maintain the left-hand "claw." To be fair, there is a minority of players that don't share that view. Just be sure you know what you want before you get out the woodworking tools. ;)
 
#51
drurb said:
Shaving the neck to make it thin like that of a Kay? :eek: Before you do, play a few more basses. You'll find that most have substantially thicker necks than a Kay. Then, check the threads here for the discussions regarding skinny vs. thicker necks. For me and many others, those skinny necks lead quickly to fatigue when trying to maintain the left-hand "claw." To be fair, there is a minority of players that don't share that view. Just be sure you know what you want before you get out the woodworking tools. ;)
Click to expand...

Off the cuff, I'd say my UB's neck is about 1/8th of an inch wider (OK by me), and easily 3/16th of an inch thicker.

I teethed on a 61 P-Bass, a wide, flat neck. I still prefer that type of Bass, because my hands are small. Learning to play, I made an effort to drop my wrist and never hook my thumb. As time has passed, I play as it feels comfortable to play.

The Kay I played gave me instant gratification.. like a Jazz Bass does! All the parts I've worked so hard to learn.. right there with no hand fatigue! Looking at my UB, I doubt I'll get through this step with an intact Bass..

P-Basses are still my fav ;)

TY for the comments!

Robin
 
#52
Your left hand position (assuming you are right handed) should be different for DB than it would be on a plank, although good electric bass players use technique similar to DB.
If your intention is to really learn to play the instrument, may I recommend you start with a good foundation.

From the tone of this very enjoyable thread, I don't think you want to play jazz like Ray Brown. However, if you learn to play the DB with proper technique you will be able to play whatever kind of music you like; without pain or injury.

Notice Ray's left hand position. "The Claw".

I have played a few Kay basses and certainly they differ in quality and neck shape. Some have had a very pleasant feeling slightly slimmer neck profile, but some are way too thin to play with proper technique. I tried one last week that was almost impossible for me and I have small hands as well. My former teacher and I have exactly the same size hands and he has great left hand technique playing basses with thicker necks. He's also the top working bassist in the area so I trust his approach.
If you want to wrap your thumb around the neck and put your palm on the back of the neck, go for it, but you will be limiting your ability to be much better than you are today.

Although you are having a lot of fun now, I sense that you want to be the best player you can. Otherwise, why bother?;)
 
#53
RobinG said:
Off the cuff, I'd say my UB's neck is about 1/8th of an inch wider (OK by me), and easily 3/16th of an inch thicker.
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I'd say that's a good thing.

RobinG said:
I teethed on a 61 P-Bass, a wide, flat neck. I still prefer that type of Bass, because my hands are small. Learning to play, I made an effort to drop my wrist and never hook my thumb. As time has passed, I play as it feels comfortable to play.
Click to expand...

An effort to drop the wrist? I suspect you're referring to EB technique here. Yes?


RobinG said:
The Kay I played gave me instant gratification.. like a Jazz Bass does! All the parts I've worked so hard to learn.. right there with no hand fatigue! Looking at my UB, I doubt I'll get through this step with an intact Bass..
Click to expand...

Ah, instant gratification. So many EB players feel that way when switching from EB to smaller-neck UBs. If this really works for you, then great. I'm just suggesting some caution. Can you maintain the claw without fatigue when playing for, say, two hours? So much of learning to play DB is developing the physical technique that, at first, may seem quite awkward. A thinner neck, at first, feels better. Collapsing the left hand and pointing the thumb straight up also can feel better at first but, as most here know, that can severely limit your potential. Again, if the size of your hand and/or your preference leads you to a thinner neck then, of course, play and be happy.
 
#54
I just saw your reference to dropping your wrist and not hooking your thumb. Hopefully, that means there is hope for you. lol.................

It may have been Charles Mingus who said, "learn to play like all the cats who came before you and then play like yourself". :D

Pretty good advice.
 
#55
clink said:
Your left hand position (assuming you are right handed) should be different for DB...
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You beat me to it by a few seconds. I agree completely. You said it more forcefully than I as I didn't want to open the door to the usual spat about "proper" technique. Great video! Interesting how Ray points out the importance of holding the string down with the left hand to let the note ring. This strikes me as yet another example of how classical training helps with jazz. The first five to six years of my formal training were all classical (arco, of course). Yikes-- lift up the left hand? Never!
 
#57
Unfortunately, there are NO shortcuts if one wants to be good at anything in life. Each person makes a decision ,conscious or not, as to how hard they want to work to be as good as they want to be. I'm surely not a slave to practice, but I had the good fortune to study with the Symphony Principal twenty odd years ago for a year. When I bought a DB two years ago I went to the top jazz bassist for a year. My request to him was only that he teach me to play with proper technique.
What I do with the technique is another matter, but the foundation is there.
 
#58
clink said:
Unfortunately, there are NO shortcuts if one wants to be good at anything in life. Each person makes a decision ,conscious or not, as to how hard they want to work to be as good as they want to be. I'm surely not a slave to practice, but I had the good fortune to study with the Symphony Principal twenty odd years ago for a year. When I bought a DB two years ago I went to the top jazz bassist for a year. My request to him was only that he teach me to play with proper technique.
What I do with the technique is another matter, but the foundation is there.
Click to expand...

You and I are of a similar mind on this one. I always considered proper technique to be of paramount importance. It opens the door to one's potential. Not everyone shares this view.
 
#59
Thanks for the Ray Brown series clink! While I'm guessing Ray has much larger hands than I do, I did learn to play EB using a similar left hand technique (holding strings down, minimal finger movement). It's served me well for the many years I've played :) I would also add that I agree with Ray's approach to playing a tune. While being far from a Jazz player (but working on it!), every good song has 3 elements. A melody that sticks, a groove, and a hook, that can come from any instrument. Ray just has the ability to play all 3 at the same time, on a Bass! I'm gonna be watching that right hand as well..

Now I'm moving on to the next step to becoming a complete Bassist. Drurb, your comments are spot on! The many years of great players before us knew what they were doing.

I still think I'll be shaving a bit of wood off the back of my UB's neck to flatten it out a bit. That will make it a bit more playable for me.

Thanks for all the positive input!

Robin
 

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