High note access/Neck thru vs Bolt on

[Katoosie]

Hi TB!

I've been trying to search for a thread on this but didn't have much luck most likely due to not knowing how to phrase what I wanted to ask.

So I've noticed that on my 5 string Jackson bass which has a bolt on neck, access to the highest two frets on the B/E is basically impossible/painful. I have tried using different methods but because of the size and thickness of the neck plus the body, it's really hard to access these highest frets.

"But who would play all the way up there?!" I hear you say.

Well, this is more of a just discussion thread about the ergonomics and playability rather than note choice. Plus, I paid for these frets so I should be able to play them, right?

So if I want to play on the two highest frets on these strings, I have to grab the neck and the neck pocket with my entire palm which leaves no physical way of fretting the frets on B and E with my pinkie. It's too short. Middle finger works better but then I can't hold my bass properly and I lose control over it.

So, this made me think... What if I had a neck thru bass?

Something like this

Looks way more accessible than this

And it made me think about my 6 string bass that is coming soon to me... which has a bolt on neck... and now I'm thinking that I should have gotten a neck thru instrument because it seems like it would offer a better and easier access to the highest notes on the B/E string.

What do you all think of this?
Am I wrong in thinking that a neck thru offers better accessibility and playability?
Any opinions? I would love to hear some more about this.

Thanks

 

[MattZilla]

About 0:20 this little monster shows something I wish I were taught... ever.

The size ratio of her hand to that Ray’s neck is probably about the same as yours would be to a typical sixer’s neck.

It appears this girl’s parents are friends with Victor Wooten and he’s (or somebody has) taught her pretty perfect fret-hand technique, particularly in the upper register. Her tiny hands probably could handle the clunkiest neck joint with that kinda floating thumb technique.

That said, I do enjoy a nice small-heel neck-thru joint. There were a lot of mfrs making them in the 90s.

 

[Johnny Fingers]

Kinda makes one sick, in a sweet sort of way.

 

[Killing Floor]

About 0:20 this little monster shows something I wish I were taught... ever.

The size ratio of her hand to that Ray’s neck is probably about the same as yours would be to a typical sixer’s neck.

It appears this girl’s parents are friends with Victor Wooten and he’s (or somebody has) taught her pretty perfect fret-hand technique, particularly in the upper register. Her tiny hands probably could handle the clunkiest neck joint with that kinda floating thumb technique.

That said, I do enjoy a nice small-heel neck-thru joint. There were a lot of mfrs making them in the 90s.

Let me say the absolutely coolest thing about that clip is how much fun she is having. Love that!

 

[Moving Pictures]

All I can about the video is Wow! Love the joy she expressed when playing. Very infectious.

Regarding the neck joint I think good technique helps but also the design of the bass is equally important. Some manufacturers have the upper fret access really dialed in with a sculpted heel and deeper lower cutaway. Not sure it is a bolt-on versus neck through issue despite more neck through basses having those design features. I have seen both types of necks with great, and not so great, upper fret access.

 

[B-Mac]

Hi TB!

I've been trying to search for a thread on this but didn't have much luck most likely due to not knowing how to phrase what I wanted to ask.

So I've noticed that on my 5 string Jackson bass which has a bolt on neck, access to the highest two frets on the B/E is basically impossible/painful. I have tried using different methods but because of the size and thickness of the neck plus the body, it's really hard to access these highest frets.

"But who would play all the way up there?!" I hear you say.

Well, this is more of a just discussion thread about the ergonomics and playability rather than note choice. Plus, I paid for these frets so I should be able to play them, right?

So if I want to play on the two highest frets on these strings, I have to grab the neck and the neck pocket with my entire palm which leaves no physical way of fret ting the frets on B and E with my pinkie. It's too short. Middle finger works better but then I can't hold my bass properly and I lose control over it.

So, this made me think... What if I had a neck thru bass?

Something like this
View attachment 4269016

Looks way more accessible than this

And it made me think about my 6 string bass that is coming soon to me... which has a bolt on neck... and now I'm thinking that I should have gotten a neck thru instrument because it seems like it would offer a better and easier access to the highest notes on the B/E string.

What do you all think of this?
Am I wrong in thinking that a neck thru offers better accessibility and playability?
Any opinions? I would love to hear some more about this.

Thanks

Kinga plays up there a lot...and its a bolt on
I would say keep practicing maybe?

Note that she points the bass forward at an angle for this vid.
Adam Neely had a vid about this technique making playing in that area more comfortable.

 

[Bryan R. Tyler]

About 0:20 this little monster shows something I wish I were taught... ever.

The size ratio of her hand to that Ray’s neck is probably about the same as yours would be to a typical sixer’s neck.

It appears this girl’s parents are friends with Victor Wooten and he’s (or somebody has) taught her pretty perfect fret-hand technique, particularly in the upper register. Her tiny hands probably could handle the clunkiest neck joint with that kinda floating thumb technique.

That said, I do enjoy a nice small-heel neck-thru joint. There were a lot of mfrs making them in the 90s.

I’ve always done that, but I was never taught to (was never taught anything really lol). It has its negatives too, as without having your thumb to push off on on your neck your fingers can feel like they’re floating around

 

[Bryan R. Tyler]

Also, the way the neck block is cut can make a huge difference. For example, my old Zon TJ5s had very deep cutaways, but the neck block started higher up, so actually playing those higher frets wasn’t much easier due to my thumb not being able to follow the rest of my hand:

My Elrick bolt-on however, while not having a super deep cutaway, has much easier access to those frets due to the way the neck block has been cut out:

So bolt-ons can have just as good or better access than a neck through, but it all depends on how it’s been shaped.

 

[Katoosie]

Kinga plays up there a lot...and its a bolt on
I would say keep practicing maybe?

Note that she points the bass forward when she goes to the high notes.
Adam Neely had a vid about this technique making playing in that area more comfortable.

Yeah so playing up there on a 5er is more difficult than a 4. It's going to be even crazier on my new 6.
Thank you for the link

Also in the video of the small girl she dives the bass and I do that too, it helps a bit.

 

[Katoosie]

Also, the way the neck block is cut can make a huge difference. For example, my old Zon TJ5s had very deep cutaways, but the neck block started higher up, so actually playing those higher frets wasn’t much easier due to my thumb not being able to follow the rest of my hand:
View attachment 4269055

My Elrick bolt-on however, while not having a super deep cutaway, has much easier access to those frets due to the way the neck block has been cut out:
View attachment 4269058

So bolt-ons can have just as good or better access than a neck through, but it all depends on how it’s been shaped.

This is probably the best example of what I was thinking about when I made this thread. It just seems like a ton of the accessability has to do with the design, not just play style and technique.

 

[B-Mac]

Yeah so playing up there on a 5er is more difficult than a 4. It's going to be even crazier on my new 6.
Thank you for the link

I just did an ad edit on the post.

Note how she is holding the bass at an angle. Adam Neely did a vid showing how as you go to the high notes it is easier when you angle the bass at an angle from yourself, like say 30 degrees or so. Keeps your fretting hand from cramping up.

 

[alex1fly]

Yep it's more about the ergonomics of the cutaway than the particular type of neck joint IME.

 

[Gilmourisgod]

Definitely better access to high frets with a neck-through. You can develop work-arounds with a bolt-on, but that's the main (maybe only?) advantage of neck through. I never noticed any real tone or sustain difference, though some people claim to. There are some bolt-ons with what amounts to a carved heel, they usually seem to have 6 bolt connections, so it's a thinner heel spread out over a longer distance. Upright bassists learn the "reach over" technique (probably a name for it), but it looks awkward and imprecise somehow. I guess you can train or adapt yourself to anything, but it's hard to argue it isn't a lot easier on a neck through with a carved heel.

 

[who]

My Elrick bolt-on however, while not having a super deep cutaway, has much easier access to those frets due to the way the neck block has been cut out:
View attachment 4269058

So bolt-ons can have just as good or better access than a neck through, but it all depends on how it’s been shaped.

I've never had the opportunity to try an Elrick, but I've always been a fan of the way they do their neck joints.

 

[callofcthulhu]

I have a solution that works for me. It may not work for everyone.

It's not a crazy solution.

It's not a "square peg, round hole" solution.

I can see where some bassists may not buy into this solution.

But...


It works for me...


The neck width is really manageable...


Even across all 6 strings....


The cutaway allows easy access to high frets for leads...


Here's what I do...


View attachment 4269034

Jeeze, so you pick up a guitar just to play a run or solo and then switch back to your bass? And what, stop the whole song while you put down your bass and pick up the guitar? Or do you just have both instruments strapped on at all times? And you must have some kind of A/B/Y pedal to send it to your rig, right? What strings/tuning are on it?

Inquiring minds want to know.

 

[dkelley]

Yes, OP, you are 100% correct.

A well designed neck through bass gives far better access higher up the neck than a typical bolt on neck does.

That being said, there are excellent designs for bolt on basses that solve many of the issues you identified with them. Ibanez has some very thin and easy to ignore bolt-on designs.... I can play mine without even thinking about the fact that it's bolt on.

My warwick corvette bolt on similar has very good access up there.

But neither of them gives as amazing access up high as a very well engineered neck through design, because on neck through you don't need body wood beside the neck to hold it in place, and the back of neck to frets only needs to be as thick as the neck through design requires... which means zero body has to get in the way up to the top of the highest fret.

So I do strongly feel neck throughs are superior, if well designed, but relatively modern ergonimic bolt on designs get you past most of the trouble your photo showed with the classic fender style bolt on joint.

My peavey 6 string bass (grind) does have the best access up high... neck through... of my current crop of instruments.

 

[Killing Floor]

Jeeze, so you pick up a guitar just to play a run or solo and then switch back to your bass? And what, stop the whole song while you put down your bass and pick up the guitar? Or do you just have both instruments strapped on at all times? And you must have some kind of A/B/Y pedal to send it to your rig, right? What strings/tuning are on it?

Inquiring minds want to know.

 

[songwriter21]

Hi TB!

I've been trying to search for a thread on this but didn't have much luck most likely due to not knowing how to phrase what I wanted to ask.

So I've noticed that on my 5 string Jackson bass which has a bolt on neck, access to the highest two frets on the B/E is basically impossible/painful. I have tried using different methods but because of the size and thickness of the neck plus the body, it's really hard to access these highest frets.

"But who would play all the way up there?!" I hear you say.

Well, this is more of a just discussion thread about the ergonomics and playability rather than note choice. Plus, I paid for these frets so I should be able to play them, right?

So if I want to play on the two highest frets on these strings, I have to grab the neck and the neck pocket with my entire palm which leaves no physical way of fretting the frets on B and E with my pinkie. It's too short. Middle finger works better but then I can't hold my bass properly and I lose control over it.

So, this made me think... What if I had a neck thru bass?

Something like this
View attachment 4269016

Looks way more accessible than this
View attachment 4269076

And it made me think about my 6 string bass that is coming soon to me... which has a bolt on neck... and now I'm thinking that I should have gotten a neck thru instrument because it seems like it would offer a better and easier access to the highest notes on the B/E string.

What do you all think of this?
Am I wrong in thinking that a neck thru offers better accessibility and playability?
Any opinions? I would love to hear some more about this.

Thanks

The cutout at the joint makes the difference, imo. I owned a Spector Euro that was neck-thru, and the upper-fret access was horrible.

 

[arbiterusa]

Ibanez, Warwick and Cort all have bolt on designs where getting to the top frets is very, very painless.

 

[songwriter21]

About 0:20 this little monster shows something I wish I were taught... ever.

The size ratio of her hand to that Ray’s neck is probably about the same as yours would be to a typical sixer’s neck.

It appears this girl’s parents are friends with Victor Wooten and he’s (or somebody has) taught her pretty perfect fret-hand technique, particularly in the upper register. Her tiny hands probably could handle the clunkiest neck joint with that kinda floating thumb technique.

That said, I do enjoy a nice small-heel neck-thru joint. There were a lot of mfrs making them in the 90s.

Phenomenal, and one of the cutest vids I've ever seen.