My Laklands have a slanted edge rather than a straight 90 degrees like the traditional Fender. Helps a lot. The Elrick looks like an even more extreme take on that approach.
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Peace,
SoundSupport
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High note access/Neck thru vs Bolt on
- Thread starter Katoosie
- Start date
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Peace,
SoundSupport
Years ago, the same issue regarding upper fret access used to bother me. I’ve since let it go..& it doesn’t bother me at all anymore.. but as others have stated, it’s really all in the design. I’ve noticed some bolt on’s & neck throughs both, sometimes have limited upper fret access. Hopefully you will find something that works well for you !
Came back to watch these and really liked them as a good explanation of how to solve the problem with technique, rather than gear. Though I have enjoyed the easier upper fret access while NOT shifting my hand on neck-throughs.
- Apr 18, 2008
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- Disclosures
- I'm highly opinionated and extremely self-assured
As others have already pointed out, it’s a design issue. Fender’s design is primitive and utilitarian, and intentionally so. It’s a shame that it’s become the standard. A much better approach is to make the neck longer and the neck pocket deeper. Done right, this is functionally identical to a neck-through design.
This one is a guitar, and I glued the neck instead of using screws, but this illustrates the approach. I’m considering building a bass like this soon.
This one is a guitar, and I glued the neck instead of using screws, but this illustrates the approach. I’m considering building a bass like this soon.
When I built my 6 string that has a bolt on neck, I made the lower bout cut very close to the bottom of the neck (see my avatar). I also tapered the heal at an angle to the treble side.
Ah, yes. Nothing like starting you day by watching an 8-year-old who can cut your stuff six ways from Sunday.
I’m not out to demonstrate that I’m a G.O.F. but it seems that when something like playing every fret on the neck of a bass is important to you, you’d find that out by trying it before committing to buy.
yea but that bolt on design is EXTREMELY unusual. The OP posted a fender style bolt on design, and yea they are very thick and have not great top fret access.
That's pretty amazing, your bolt on bass. Nice design
I think the next bass he buys, if he gets to try first, will included just such a tryout.
We all started somewhere... and in my case I had no idea what I needed or wanted when I got my first instrument, other than I knew I wanted 24 frets. I lucked out and got a neck through ibby with incredible access, but that was just a fluke really.... except it was obvious that is was vastly superior engineering to the fender precision I was trading in on it.
By coincidence, I am working on that very "Sir Duke" right now. Our trumpet player who has written/transcribed it, dropped it from B to Bb (easier for the wind instruments). However, as I have chosen my Mustang P/J for the song, while now having F, not F# as the lowest note, I STILL end up at the top fret of the G string, as the Mustang has one less fret than P or J.
And let me tell you, top fret acces is NOT good on a Mustang.
Might take the Longhorn instead - plenty of room on that 24 fret neck!
Oh, and seing the fun the girl has, playing that song, is really putting a smile on my face!
And let me tell you, top fret acces is NOT good on a Mustang.
Might take the Longhorn instead - plenty of room on that 24 fret neck!
Oh, and seing the fun the girl has, playing that song, is really putting a smile on my face!
Think you have a tough time getting to every last fret on the neck? Go play a DB sometime and discover the joys of thumb position.
My 5 string basses have 22 frets. There are two good reasons to have that many frets:
1) It forces more cutaway on the lower bout, which saves weight.
2) It gives me more metal near my right hand to bounce the strings off of. Those last few frets are there to take the hit, thereby protecting the important frets.
Who knew people would try to play those notes on a bass? I’m usually on stage with 2 electrics, one or two acoustics, keyboards, and 4 or 5 singers - there’s a traffic jam in that octave already, why would I go there?
1) It forces more cutaway on the lower bout, which saves weight.
2) It gives me more metal near my right hand to bounce the strings off of. Those last few frets are there to take the hit, thereby protecting the important frets.
Who knew people would try to play those notes on a bass? I’m usually on stage with 2 electrics, one or two acoustics, keyboards, and 4 or 5 singers - there’s a traffic jam in that octave already, why would I go there?
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the worst neck for upper notes that I've ever played was a brand new 1966 Fender Jazz with the white-bound rosewood fretboard and the first use of bar fret markers. For some crazy reason Fender decided that instead of the slim C-shape neck on my 1965 Jazz they'd put a deep U-shaped neck on it. One of the songs I'd play that really needed to go up there was Archie Bell and the Drells "Tighten Up" which is in F# and a lot of it is played starting on fret 14. Was just impossible to do with that neck. It sure looked pretty with the binding and bar markers, and I was considering trading in my '65 towards it. After I played it I was really glad I had a '65 Jazz instead of a '66!
It looks like Fender figured that out before the year was over as I've seen 2 or 3 1966 Jazz that had the Slim C-shape neck with 7.25" radius and one of the ones I saw had a September 1966 date on the heel of the neck. But that deep U-shape was an absolute mess to play.
The Mayones Feraud bass has what looks like a good solution. It's bolt on, but has reduced heel bulk where your thumb would be if playing the uppermost frets. Unfortunately, I've never played one, so I can't comment on how it actually feels.Hi TB!
I've been trying to search for a thread on this but didn't have much luck most likely due to not knowing how to phrase what I wanted to ask.
So I've noticed that on my 5 string Jackson bass which has a bolt on neck, access to the highest two frets on the B/E is basically impossible/painful. I have tried using different methods but because of the size and thickness of the neck plus the body, it's really hard to access these highest frets.
"But who would play all the way up there?!" I hear you say.
Well, this is more of a just discussion thread about the ergonomics and playability rather than note choice. Plus, I paid for these frets so I should be able to play them, right?
So if I want to play on the two highest frets on these strings, I have to grab the neck and the neck pocket with my entire palm which leaves no physical way of fretting the frets on B and E with my pinkie. It's too short. Middle finger works better but then I can't hold my bass properly and I lose control over it.
So, this made me think... What if I had a neck thru bass?
Something like this
View attachment 4269016
Looks way more accessible than this
View attachment 4269076
And it made me think about my 6 string bass that is coming soon to me... which has a bolt on neck... and now I'm thinking that I should have gotten a neck thru instrument because it seems like it would offer a better and easier access to the highest notes on the B/E string.
What do you all think of this?
Am I wrong in thinking that a neck thru offers better accessibility and playability?
Any opinions? I would love to hear some more about this.
Thanks
I trust that Mayones' designers took their modifications into account and added the 6 bolts for adequate stability.
It’s all about your technique.
I made the mistake of complaining about my clunky jazz bass heel in front of Jeff Berlin , back in the day when he was “grumpy Jeff” pre therapy.
He took that bass away from me, played some perfectly technical run all the way to the last Fret, gruffly said “there’s nothing wrong with this bass” and handed it back.
Ok Jeff, point taken
I made the mistake of complaining about my clunky jazz bass heel in front of Jeff Berlin , back in the day when he was “grumpy Jeff” pre therapy.
He took that bass away from me, played some perfectly technical run all the way to the last Fret, gruffly said “there’s nothing wrong with this bass” and handed it back.
Ok Jeff, point taken
I have two bolt-on Fender jazz basses. In those times when I need to play high frets, regardless of which string, I shift my thumb to the side of the neck where the fingerboard meets the neck itself, or with the bass you have pictured, my thumb would rest directly on the binding. So your thumb rests on the side of the neck by the first string instead of the on the back. It allows access to the high frets without discomfort.Hi TB!
I've been trying to search for a thread on this but didn't have much luck most likely due to not knowing how to phrase what I wanted to ask.
So I've noticed that on my 5 string Jackson bass which has a bolt on neck, access to the highest two frets on the B/E is basically impossible/painful. I have tried using different methods but because of the size and thickness of the neck plus the body, it's really hard to access these highest frets.
"But who would play all the way up there?!" I hear you say.
Well, this is more of a just discussion thread about the ergonomics and playability rather than note choice. Plus, I paid for these frets so I should be able to play them, right?
So if I want to play on the two highest frets on these strings, I have to grab the neck and the neck pocket with my entire palm which leaves no physical way of fretting the frets on B and E with my pinkie. It's too short. Middle finger works better but then I can't hold my bass properly and I lose control over it.
So, this made me think... What if I had a neck thru bass?
Something like this
View attachment 4269016
Looks way more accessible than this
View attachment 4269076
And it made me think about my 6 string bass that is coming soon to me... which has a bolt on neck... and now I'm thinking that I should have gotten a neck thru instrument because it seems like it would offer a better and easier access to the highest notes on the B/E string.
What do you all think of this?
Am I wrong in thinking that a neck thru offers better accessibility and playability?
Any opinions? I would love to hear some more about this.
Thanks
A few days ago, I sent in a deposit for a Maruszczyk Frog with a bolt-on neck. This thread made me rethink that decision, and I just changed the order to a set neck.Well but if the heel is fat then that wont really do a lot when you make a bigger cutaway in the body, you'll still have to work around the heel. Just noting it, not saying it's a bad choice
Not that the bolt-on design was bad, it's actually quite good. Maybe not as good as the Mayones design a few posts above this one, but good nonetheless. But the set neck is a lot cleaner. It's also more expensive, which is the original reason I chose the bolt-on neck.
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But why making life extra difficult by not picking the best tool for a job? I think Jeff Berlin made a straw man of your comment.
I used to attach a lot of importance to having lots of frets on my basses, with access all the way up the fretboard, and my high-end basses are all 24-fretters with big cutaways to get at 'em. But the reality is that the longer I've played bass, the *less* often I end up doing anything above the 19th fret, usually for the high voices of chords and arpeggios.
I'm definitely partial to through-neck basses, but it's not because they necessarily have better high fretboard access, but because of what the greater rigidity does for tone and sustain.
I'm definitely partial to through-neck basses, but it's not because they necessarily have better high fretboard access, but because of what the greater rigidity does for tone and sustain.
