I find my HPF useful all the time (as opposed to only when playing loud). A little bass boost with a higher HPF makes for a thicker, better defined bottom. It has become an important eq tool for me.
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Here's a question. I have the HPF/LPF filter. If you keep the LPF at its lowest setting, 20K, does it do anything, i.e. is this "off"? I can't really tell the difference on the high end with the pedal engaged/not engaged – or if there is it's very subtle. I agree with others that it's better to use your ears with it and not get hung up on the numbers on the dial. One of those purchases that I decided to give it a try not really knowing what it would do for me, but I'm very happy I did.
- Feb 12, 2006
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- Development Engineer-Mesa Boogie, Development Engineer-Genzler (pedals), Product Support-Genz Benz
At 20kHz you shouldn't hear any meaningful difference at all. there could be a slight overall level difference depending of the specifics of the filter, but all in all I would expect it to be insignificant.
I am no expert but, hearing 20kHz at my age, is an unknown. My wife probably can hear it but I certainly do not. Maybe I am lucky I have a built in LPF
.
I am no expert but, hearing 20kHz at my age, is an unknown. My wife probably can hear it but I certainly do not. Maybe I am lucky I have a built in LPF
EXACTLY!!!
The upper limit average for the typical adult is 15-17K. Very few adults are able to hear up to 20K.Yes.
This is what Broughton web page says on this topic: With HPF at 25Hz and LPf at 20 kHz, they are effectively “off”.
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I've been thinking about getting an HPF but my question is, why is it different than turning down the bass on my GK 400rb?
I'm sure this has been answered but what is the general conclusion?
I'm sure this has been answered but what is the general conclusion?
It has been already answered, but I'll take a stab at a summary:
The way a lot of bass controls work, you're turning down the lows, but the effect levels off and a lot of lower-yet stuff still gets through. A high-pass filter continues rolling stuff off pretty much all the way down. The slope is likely (but doesn't have) to be steeper than that of a bass control and the point at which it starts rolling off is often set (or can be adjusted) lower than that of your bass control -- that's why a lot of people talk about using an HPF and then boosting bass.
For example, a shelving bass control might cut 15 dB off your lows if you dial it all the way down. Below a certain frequency, it levels off. So, you dial it all the way down and you're 15 dB down at 10 Hz (and below and through a certain range above), but now your sound has no bottom and there's still appreciable sub-bass content getting through. A 12 dB/octave HPF set at 40 Hz will be 12 dB down at 20 Hz and 24 dB down at 10 Hz (and keep sloping down below that). A 24 dB/octave filter set at 40 Hz will be 24 dB down at 20 Hz and 48 dB down at 10 Hz -- a more significant cut of the sub lows and you can leave your bass control (whether shelving or otherwise) set where it is or even boost it. Ideally, the sound doesn't thin out audibly and you can dial-in more bass, if you want it, without it sounding loose or uncontrolled.
Where and how much to HPF depends on your cabs and taste, among other things.
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- Feb 12, 2006
- 60,963
- 5
- 220,655
- Disclosures
- Development Engineer-Mesa Boogie, Development Engineer-Genzler (pedals), Product Support-Genz Benz
The typical bass tone control has a slope of 6dB/octave and has a -3dB corner frequency at full cut/boost (15dB) of typically between 300 - 800Hz. From this, we can calculate that with full cut/boost at 100Hz, the corner frequency would be 400Hz.
A typical HPF will have a corner frequency of say 40Hz, and be 12dB down at 20Hz. There will be no affect above the corner frequency.
For reference, -6dB would be 25% of the power relative to 0dB.
these are 2 totally different tools for different jobs.
A typical HPF will have a corner frequency of say 40Hz, and be 12dB down at 20Hz. There will be no affect above the corner frequency.
For reference, -6dB would be 25% of the power relative to 0dB.
these are 2 totally different tools for different jobs.
On a lot of amps adding HPF ''gives you the bass knob back'' from performing a pisspoor job of controlling woof. Even with 12 band graphic EQ the HPF does a better job ime.
I found out our sound guy is using a LPF set at 2k on my bass, so I sat at home and set a LPF at 2k with both eq's I have available (motu audio interface and Helix Stomp), and I don't see how that could be reasonable. I think setting it at 4k sounds fine, but 2k sounds awful. I think I could use any bass or cardboard box probably, and it would sound essentially the same. I looked for info on LPF and didn't see much, although I couldn't read all 100 pages (sorry). Any thoughts?
- Feb 12, 2006
- 60,963
- 5
- 220,655
- Disclosures
- Development Engineer-Mesa Boogie, Development Engineer-Genzler (pedals), Product Support-Genz Benz
If your bass cabinet begins rolling off at 2kHz, then in the FOH where the mid response is flat, a LPF would be used to duplicate the effect of your cabinet on mid frequencies. When you try this with your cabinet the mids are already being affected.
I actually go direct on gigs, but I don't know what I'm getting in my IEM's. I may not be getting the post LPF signal. At home I'm plugging straight into the audio interface or the Helix, so no cabinet there. But it may be that whatever LPF I'm using may roll off more drastically than what he's using. If I understand what you're saying, it may be that what he's doing makes it sound more like a bass amp and cab, which I guess could be ok. Thanks.
- Feb 12, 2006
- 60,963
- 5
- 220,655
- Disclosures
- Development Engineer-Mesa Boogie, Development Engineer-Genzler (pedals), Product Support-Genz Benz
- Feb 12, 2006
- 60,963
- 5
- 220,655
- Disclosures
- Development Engineer-Mesa Boogie, Development Engineer-Genzler (pedals), Product Support-Genz Benz
So I would expect that the tone would improve with a LPF because there is no rolloff with the phones. Depending on the slope, something between 2kHz and 5kHz would be a good starting point IMO.
^^^
TL;DR: Talk to your sound-guy and see if you can get a listen to what he's hearing.
@KJMO, 2 KHz sounds like an earlier roll-off than I would want, but I don't know what slope your guy is using or your band's overall sound. I'd mention to him your concerns and see if there's a way you can hear what he's hearing/what's going to FOH.
Also, given that you're using IEMs, I'd think you'd want what you're hearing and what's in FOH to be consistent (tonally, if not levels-wise). That would be my inclination, anyway, but then, while I use pretty full-range cabs (and am aware that stage sound doesn't always equate with house sound), I've not played with IEMs -- maybe there are nuances I'm missing.
Maybe listening to a mix from the desk and/or a decent recording from out in the club would be instructive, too.
TL;DR: Talk to your sound-guy and see if you can get a listen to what he's hearing.
@KJMO, 2 KHz sounds like an earlier roll-off than I would want, but I don't know what slope your guy is using or your band's overall sound. I'd mention to him your concerns and see if there's a way you can hear what he's hearing/what's going to FOH.
Also, given that you're using IEMs, I'd think you'd want what you're hearing and what's in FOH to be consistent (tonally, if not levels-wise). That would be my inclination, anyway, but then, while I use pretty full-range cabs (and am aware that stage sound doesn't always equate with house sound), I've not played with IEMs -- maybe there are nuances I'm missing.
Maybe listening to a mix from the desk and/or a decent recording from out in the club would be instructive, too.
While 2 KHz is an earlier roll-off than I would want in most cases, depending on how it's implemented, the rest of the signal content, and the rest of the mix, I could see it working well (and not making everything sound the same).
Along that line (not that you're looking to emulate a B-15), you might find this thread to be of interest: Ampeg b15 live tone
Graph from that thread (see thread's OP, below, for context):
Along that line (not that you're looking to emulate a B-15), you might find this thread to be of interest: Ampeg b15 live tone
Graph from that thread (see thread's OP, below, for context):
Thanks, Elias. I'm no expert -- just trying to think through how I'd approach not knowing (and being concerned about) how I sound out front.
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Listening when playing alone at home doesn’t give you an idea how you sound in the mix.
You can get a wireless and listen to FOH while your whole band is playing.
