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High priced power cords, koolaid?

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#62
I personally use $8 Chinese strings on a stock SX P Bass clone with an $8 cable and a audio preamp made by my neighbor who is a Ham Radio buff. When I get any flack on sessions or gigs, I simply pull out my printouts of Talkbass threads that say wood, electronics, power cords, strings and everything else doesn't matter.
It totally convinced David Foster, yeah, that's the ticket......:D
I kid! I kid! I am totally not going to open this can of worms again. Ya'll use what you want! :hiding:
 
#63
Roscoe East said:
And fwiw, here's my "monkey wrench" story:

I did a non-level-matched, non-ABX, non-double blind listening evaluation of boutique AC power cords with a half dozen other audiophiles (sic) a year or two ago. And every one of us swore we heard a difference. I'm sitting there waving my hands around telling everybody "We haven't accounted for expectation bias, this test reveals more about our perceptions than it does about the cable!" and yet I too thought I could hear a distinct difference between the $5 power cord and the $500 power cord.

Which sort of proved my point...only not to anyone else there!
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Mike Arnopol said:
Did a blind test a bunch of times. Our guitarist called it every time as did I.
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Now here's the REAL test that identifies the Koolaid drinkers - if there IS a difference, do you want to know the reason for it? Are you willing to ask the question "why"? Or are you content for it to be explained by a "magic/secret/unobtainium cable/cord"?

One of the reasons I dearly love seeing all the discussion and number crunching, especially over in the amplifier section. At heated as it gets sometimes, it sure beats the alternative.
 
#65
Roy Vogt said:
I personally use $8 Chinese strings on a stock SX P Bass clone with an $8 cable and a audio preamp made by my neighbor who is a Ham Radio buff. When I get any flack on sessions or gigs, I simply pull out my printouts of Talkbass threads that say wood, electronics, power cords, strings and everything else doesn't matter.
It totally convinced David Foster, yeah, that's the ticket......:D
I kid! I kid! I am totally not going to open this can of worms again. Ya'll use what you want! :hiding:
Click to expand...

Sorry Roy, I have access to some of the best EE's around (I'm an ME with a strong EE background) that not only design cables, but they also designed them for pro audio and they all tell me the same thing........it doesn't/cant/ won't make a difference. And I'll believe them far before victor Wooten, Gerald Veasley and Ralphe Armstrong.
So yeah, I'll call it fake every time. Because it is.
Because you didn't study law, doesn't mean ignorance to it can break them.
Physics are physics. Period.

But if it makes you feel better, then by all means buy one.
Just don't claim something tangible is happening. Because its not.
Your mind is playing tricks on you.
 
#67
MikeBass said:
Sorry Roy, I have access to some of the best EE's around (I'm an ME with a strong EE background) that not only design cables, but they also designed them for pro audio and they all tell me the same thing........it doesn't/cant/ won't make a difference. And I'll believe them far before victor Wooten, Gerald Veasley and Ralphe Armstrong.
So yeah, I'll call it fake every time. Because it is.
Because you didn't study law, doesn't mean ignorance to it can break them.
Physics are physics. Period.

But if it makes you feel better, then by all means buy one.
Just don't claim something tangible is happening. Because its not.
Your mind is playing tricks on you.
Click to expand...

MikeBass, I totally shouldn't have posted here. I'm of opinions and should keep them. Ya'll do the same. I have nothing to contribute further, but I'll happily use the gear I do. These things always go down the rat hole sooner or later. I personally blame not enough/too much caffeine on my part! :D
Have a nice night everybody! ;)
 
#70
I'll tell you what, not every engineer writes off power cords as snake oil. The engineer I currently have working on our amp is a big believer in high end cables and power cords. This guy is an electrical engineer with decades of experience building and servicing equipment, as well as being a FOH engineer for many of the biggest names in the jazz circuit some years back. He used to build power amps used in some of the finest recording studios in the world. In other words, not a guy with no technical background making unfounded claims. I've always blown it off as snake oil myself, but he has show me a few things that have opened my eyes.

I'm still not convinced there is anything magical going on with a $400 power cable, but I do believe that at some point the lack of quality in some cheap cable made with crappy components, will become evident when compared to a superior made product. In our amp, for example, our engineer had me upgrade from the cheap amp cord that come with most amps to a better built 14ga power cord. Nothing boutique, mind you, just a better quality cord with better connectors and heavier wire. We also re-did the wiring between the power supply, power amp and speakon jacks with better board connectors and heavier gauge, silver plated, mil spec, teflon jacketed wire and the difference was clearly audible. The amp with the new wiring has a little bigger bloom to the low notes and a little better clarity in the top end. Sure, the difference is fairly subtle, but it's definitely audible. Do I have a bunch of scientific data to back up that claim. Nope, not worth spending my time, or money on. My ears tell me the different wiring is worth implementing, so that's that. Very unscientific, I know, but if I like how something sounds, I don't really care about the science behind it.
 
#73
There's a point of diminishing returns, though. Like I can see someone wanting a really heavy duty AC cable with hospital ends and thick gauge wire. I just can't see someone wanting to spend $150 for it. And I can see someone wanting a well-built instrument cable that sounds good, but I've bought $20 cables that were every bit as roadworthy and good sounding as way more expensive cables, and in some cases, better. And I'll lose a cable before I'll break one, although I've managed to hang onto the ones I bring with me for a couple years now. Got real nice basses and amps, though. I prefer spending my money on stuff that truly makes a difference and not just some tiny little difference.
 
#75
tbplayer59 said:
I know it doesn't make sense, but a bassist I respect totally, Norm Stockton, made an (as far as I know) unpaid endorsement of these cables on his Facebook page after listening to their effect at the latest NAMM show.
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Groan. First, hearing something at NAMM is like hearing something in the middle of a riot at the monkey cage at the zoo. Second, as I mentioned in a post early in the thread, being a "respected" bassist does not automatically confer the ability to avoid being fooled.
Mehve said:
Now here's the REAL test that identifies the Koolaid drinkers - if there IS a difference, do you want to know the reason for it? Are you willing to ask the question "why"? Or are you content for it to be explained by a "magic/secret/unobtainium cable/cord"?
Click to expand...
See below:
R Baer said:
Very unscientific, I know, but if I like how something sounds, I don't really care about the science behind it.
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:)
Musiclogic said:
One of the oldest truths in Electricity, clean power always improves performance of the total circuit. Less resistance always equals cleaner power.
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You will not find any "oldest truth" like that in any electronics textbook. First, the AC power from the wall is converted to DC in an amp before it reaches the amplification circuits, and all "noise", phase variations, and other irregularities that had been on the AC line are eliminated by the DC rectification. Second, most amps contain noise filtration in the power lines, making any noise-reduction from a cable redundant. Third, changing a noise-randomized "dirty" sine wave into a pure sine wave requires a lot more correction than could ever be provided by special arrangements of special wire in the cord. Fourth, not one of the high-end power cords has been independently proven to have lower resistance than a standard cord. Lastly, there is ZERO connection between resistance and "cleanness". Resistance affects the "amount" of electrical signal, but it does not dirty the signal, and having less resistance does not clean the signal.
 
#76
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#77
the_stone said:
There's a website for home stereo enthusiasts called AudioKarma, and they have a LOT of discussions about high-end power chords, speaker chords, audio connectors, etc..., along with a LOT of varying opinions about the effectiveness of the stock power chord for your stereo amplifier versus a $2,000 aftermarket power chord (and if you think that's expensive, check out what high-end speaker cable can cost).

I don't doubt that there's people for whom the expensive cables make a discernable difference, but my ears aren't that good.
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There's another forum called Audioholics and that was started by someone who's a communications electronics engineer. He also does his own testing and has tens of thousands, if not over a hundred thousand dollars worth of test equipment to back up his findings. Part of the reason h e started the forum was to de-bunk the BS that's so prevalent in the A/V industry.
 
#79
dmusic148 said:
Oh dearie dearie dear. Not again.
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Yes, someone wants to introduce logic into the discussion and is asking for objective evidence. What a bummer:rollno:

For those who do not grasp the need for blinded testing, consider this example:

In the 1940s and into the 1950s, before coronary bypass surgery was mainstream, the surgical treatment for angina was ligation of the internal mammary artery. The surgeon would cut into the chest and tie off a small artery that's easily accessible (but does not feed the heart) to relieve a lack of blood flow to the heart. There were theories put forth stating how this changed the arterial plumbing to beneficial effect. MOST PATIENTS SAID THEY FELT BETTER AFTER THE SURGERY AND MOST DOCTORS SAID THAT IN THEIR EXPERIENCE IT WORKED.......until they did a blinded trial wherein 1/2 the pts were anesthetised and had a skin incision but no artery ligation. Guess what, the number of patients stating they felt better as well as the rates of recurrent pain and death were the same in both patients who were treated and those who had placebo. The treatment never made sense and never worked, no matter how many people believed in it. It's snake oil unless/until proven otherwise. Period. You'd think the manufacturers of these things would be clamoring to publicize proof that they work. I wonder why they NEVER do?
 
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