Highly Modified Does Not Equate To Higher Prices

[luciens]

So a Squier Classic Vibe with Hipshot tuners CTS pots, and Fralin pickups is worth substantially less than the same bass with the crappy self destructing tuners and “bleh” pickups and pots?

Strange but true.

By the way, this is why custom basses in general suffer from poor resale value as a general rule. Carvin/Kiesel for example has basically pitiful resale, even though they're almost boutique level quality instruments. Reason being, for what you get, they're relatively cheap new to begin with. But even putting that aside, there's little reason to pay the seller's original cost or above for a used one, when you can order a new one configured with exactly what you want (instead of maybe only 98% of what you want in the used one) for the same money. So, a used custom has to go with a significant discount in the usual case.

Same with a used modded bass. Why pay the always-way-too-damn-high asking price, when you can buy the new one and mod it yourself with everything you want, and not just most of what you want, for the same money?

L

 

[MultiScaleMale]

I don’t understand why there’s many people that think upgrading a Squier or any cheap bass means the value of the instrument goes up. I believe it’s the opposite and whatever part that gets upgraded should be kept as a value of its own and not added to the instrument.

I’m sure there’s a great counter argument to this topic and would like to hear the peoples opinions on this matter (if one cares to express).

It all comes down to the mods and the value to the buyer.

 

[groooooove]

the stock model is the standard by which used price will be measured against.

a bass can be objectively "better" due to an upgrade. but it's not "the bass" from the factory that we can easily look up the new price, as well as the sold listings on ebay.

that alone makes the bass a unique item that inherently has a smaller demand.

MIM P - everyone wants one. people search for em. people pay for em.

MIM with swapped lollar, dimarzio, nordstrand, fralin, or whatever else you dig.... not as many people want that specific thing. even though, depending on which pickup you mod, it's fairly easy to agree that it's "better" than stock. but there's still a smaller number of people looking for exactly that.

it's a weird supply/demand issue in some way. it's also to view "modded" as "tarnished" and in some cases that's true.

 

[Marko 1]

Some general comments:

I'm perfectly happy with the sound of my stock Squier and MIM pickups (plenty of knobs to tweek, I can always make the tone sound wonderful), I'd be taking a chance on the sound of “better” pickups, so I would consider that a potential negative. (Long ago I got talked into putting ¼ pounders in my MIM Jazz V, now their back in the package as I put the stock ones back in, which I greatly prefer. I consider that a lesson.)

I only like tort or black pickguards, all other will be changed or removed.

Goofy-personal thing- I don't want the word “kickass” anywhere on my bass, it sounds childish to me. And... I actually prefer bent-plate bridges, one reason being that, when I see someone put an expensive bridge on their bass, I think they've foolishly wasted money, lol...

I only use DR Nickle Lowriders or E.B. Cobalt Flats, other strings would have to go.

"Relic" is damage imo.

Bottom line: I would prefer a virgin over someone who was trained by someone else, lol.

 

[Killing Floor]

So a Squier Classic Vibe with Hipshot tuners CTS pots, and Fralin pickups is worth substantially less than the same bass with the crappy self destructing tuners and “bleh” pickups and pots?

The problem with threads like this is that their are a bajillion different scenarios to consider, but we always just think of one and then form an opinion that we treat as absolute.

Correct. Approximately half.

 

[jdjk7]

I don’t understand why there’s many people that think upgrading a Squier or any cheap bass means the value of the instrument goes up. I believe it’s the opposite and whatever part that gets upgraded should be kept as a value of its own and not added to the instrument.

I’m sure there’s a great counter argument to this topic and would like to hear the peoples opinions on this matter (if one cares to express).

I see this when considering instruments as collectibles or as investments. But, ultimately, I see most instruments not ascollectibles or investments. They're meant to be played, and their utility *as instruments* is precisely the thing I am paying for. Upgrades or modifications, being direct additions or subtractions to that utility, are what I am paying for. I'm not paying for rarity, I'm not paying for it as an investment, to a certain degree I am not paying for the visual aesthetic. I'm not paying for it to be in 'all original condition' unless that is an advantage to its instrumental utility-- and that might be true, or that might be false. For your average everyday Squier, I'm pretty sure the answer is false.

I would never pay as much for a Squier in original condition as much as a Squier with parts that I consider to be of better quality than stock. For a vintage Fender? I'd probably be looking at whether the owner still has the originals and can include them in the sale. Otherwise I might use that as grounds to ask for a lower price, if indeed that I find the price to be too high for that proposition.

That said, this is also the part where you have to kind of know your market and have some idea of which "upgrades" actually mean something to you. For example, I'd be more likely to jump on a bass equipped with Lindy Fralins than Seymour Duncan or EMG. Just my personal preference, but I'm aware roughly of what that scale is. That goes for all the other parts too-- of course, there's stuff that I don't know about, like pots or switches, but that's the part where I do research before I drop a thousand dollars or more on an instrument.

 

[Texican]

Strange but true.

By the way, this is why custom basses in general suffer from poor resale value as a general rule. Carvin/Kiesel for example has basically pitiful resale, even though they're almost boutique level quality instruments. Reason being, for what you get, they're relatively cheap new to begin with. But even putting that aside, there's little reason to pay the seller's original cost or above for a used one, when you can order a new one configured with exactly what you want (instead of maybe only 98% of what you want in the used one) for the same money. So, a used custom has to go with a significant discount in the usual case.

Same with a used modded bass. Why pay the always-way-too-damn-high asking price, when you can buy the new one and mod it yourself with everything you want, and not just most of what you want, for the same money?

L

Still not buying it, and maybe you aren’t getting what I’m saying. I agree with everything you said, but I’m talking about something different. You’re talking about preferences of one quality part over another, and how a swap doesn’t equate to HIGHER value.

Im talking about known subpar cost-cutting components being upgraded to something that everyone knows is better/serviceable/more functional, and the fact that these upgrades WONT DEVALUE THE INSTRUMENT BY A SUBSTANTIAL MARGIN. If you asked me to give you a 33% discount because the terrible stock tuners were replaced with hip shots, I’d call you crazy. Now keep in mind I’m not asking them to pay MORE because of the upgrades either.

 

[Watchootognbout]

Totally agree, although I've seen a lot of people who seem to think it should be. But my question is: is it possible to work out a fair value, e.g. $350 bass now used (say, $250), pickups and preamp depreciated at around 50% (say, $135 and $150 respectively) so total $535? Or is it worth less than the original $350 paid because it's used, and/or "messed about with"?

$535.00 is the price that Music-Go-Round would sell the bass that I sold them.

 

[Texican]

Correct. Approximately half.

Lol


Good luck with your acquisitions. I’m sure you’ll find a great deal.

 

[Texican]

I look forward to finding an Affinity for 50 bucks because it was ruined with boutique pickups and top tier hardware!



This is what it looks like when we take something that CAN be true, in CERTAIN circumstances, SOME of the time… and then we apply it across the board and go off the deep end.

 

[g-dude]

Not completely true. Some vehicles have their value increase with the right mods. I have over 45 years experience doing just that. Turning a $10K-15K vehicle into a $50K vehicle. I would imagine some guitars and basses would too.

Some, but that is a rarity, and you’re not getting dollar for dollar back as a return unless you value your time at close to $0/hr.

 

[sonic 7]

The $$ value of an instrument is only what people will actually pay for it. Not a dime more. Buyers in the market for a used bass just don’t attach much value to upgrades, that’s just the way it is. A used bass that would normally sell for $400 is not gonna sell for $600 even if it has $500 of upgrades. At $600 I’m closer to something that says Fender on the headstock and that has much more value than a Squier with some new parts.

 

[g-dude]

Not exactly true.
Most every self-customized basses that I've sold to off Music-Go-Round got bought quite quickly.

Most likely purchased by people who are not aware that anything has been changed.

 

[Watchootognbout]

Most likely purchased by people who are not aware that anything has been changed.

That would be on Music-Go-Round.Because I always tell them what upgrades have been done.
Coupled with the fact that most of my upgrades are visible.So.....

 

[chriscarcinogen]

I think a "bone-stock" 50s to 70s P bass with flats ands tort is always going to sell for more than the same instrument with Barts and Hipshots on it, even though somebody spent real money to do that.

But, if I'm buying your 2015 Ibanez Talman TMB100 and you just put Barts and Hipshots on it, I will shell out more for that.

 

[sonic 7]

Selling stuff to a retail store is usually just marginally better than donating it to charity.

 

[g-dude]

The $$ value of an instrument is only what people will actually pay for it. Not a dime more. Buyers in the market for a used bass just don’t attach much value to upgrades, that’s just the way it is. A used bass that would normally sell for $400 is not gonna sell for $600 even if it has $500 of upgrades. At $600 I’m closer to something that says Fender on the headstock and that has much more value than a Squier with some new parts.

There’s a term that bond traders use, and that’s “cover”.

While you might have the winning bid, you usually want to know what the cover is, and that’s the next highest bid.

The closer you are to the cover, the better. It means you didn’t pay an excessive amount.

Sure, someone might fall all over themselves to buy a modded Squire, but if the cover is $300 less, then we can correctly assume that they paid way more than what the true market value would be.


One or two people who behave irrationally don’t actually set the market - they are outliers, and can be dismissed as such.

 

[g-dude]

Selling stuff to a retail store is usually just marginally better than donating it to charity.

Not necessarily.

When I factor in the cost of my time and the risk involved with selling to randos off of CL, Music Go Round is pretty fair.

 

[Texican]

A used bass that would normally sell for $400 is not gonna sell for $600 even if it has $500 of upgrades.

Very true! I think we can all agree on that. But those $500 in upgrades also aren’t going to devalue the instrument by half of its worth unless the bass was hacked up and jacked up. Especially if the stock parts are known to be subpar and they are replaced with industry standard parts and reversible mods.

 

[Thumpin6string]

Some, but that is a rarity, and you’re not getting dollar for dollar back as a return unless you value your time at close to $0/hr.

As I stated, 45 years experience doing that. In some cases paying a pro to do the mods can make the cost higher than the final value of the vehicle, but if the labor is done by the owner, then the ending value would be higher than the cost to do the mods. The difference is when doing mods on guitars or basses, you can do it yourself 9in most cases) rather than paying a pro a bunch of dollars to do it.