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Double Bass Hima Chinese basses

#41
Pete G said:
Boycotts primarily punish the boycotting population, and secondarily the innocent people within the boycotted group. They don't work to advance the intended purposes. Never have, never will.
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You mean like the USA and Cuba? Oh wait, that's an embargo, the politico-military version of a boycott...

In this world production is carried out on a global scale. We could have this boycott discussion with practically any product you might name. The argument would contain these elements:

  • the arrogant evil of _____ (fill in blank with China, America, Nike, etc.) and the Moral Rightness of opposing it
  • the total unravelling of the natural order that will occur if _____ (fill in blank with tree, animal, asteroid, etc) isn't protected

Then various counter-arguments appear:
  • those people in _____ aren't so bad after all
  • hold onto your shorts, the natural order will not unravel
  • we are all bozos on this bus: it's hypocritical for us to say anything about _____ and what they're doing to _______
  • it's hopeless to do anything about any of this, shut up and let me carry on _______ (fill in with playing, building, admiring, etc) my bass

Personally, I can see truth in all of the above but that's more my problem than anything else... There's a lot of truth out there.

I don't see why we have to have all the fuss and ad hominem sh*t when we're having a simple discussion on the political economy of basses.

Instead of coming at this from some kind of grand analytical highly-reasoned standpoint, lemme tell you what I think and feel: I do care about the state of the world. I'm interested in how my actions affect the world. I can make my own decisions about what I think and believe but I welcome any and all relevant information. I'm aware of my smallness in the global village, but I know also that if nobody does anything -- even if it's only taking note of an issue -- then nothing at all changes.

So: why wouldn't I welcome the information brought forward by jaydbass and the useful discussion that ensued? Useful, that is, until it got derailed, devalued and discombobulated by bad behaviour.
 
#42
Damon Rondeau said:
You mean like the USA and Cuba? Oh wait, that's an embargo, the politico-military version of a boycott...

Instead of coming at this from some kind of grand analytical highly-reasoned standpoint, lemme tell you what I think and feel: I do care about the state of the world. .
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The U.S. policy towards Cuba is an excellent example of a boycott (the economic term) or embargo (the political term) that, like all boycotts, has failed to accomplish its purpose. After nearly 50 years, does Castro's control seem any less because Americans can't legally buy Cuban cigars? Of course, common citizens in Cuba -- who have no power to dislodge Castro -- pay the price, but that's because U.S. governments for decades have chosen to use a "tool" that does not work.

I don't have a political ax to grind on this issue, one way or another. I simply wish, for the sake of "the state of the world" -- about which I suspect I care as much as you -- people would not endorse economic policies shown by a modicum of economic study to be ineffectual for the intended purpose and to have harmful unintended consequences.
 
#44
Ooops, Pete, I can see by the way my quote came back to me that it appears I had you targetted specifically. Completely inadvertent, that: my apologies if it caused you difficulty. The Cuba thing was supposed to be a little wink at you and then on to the main dish which was served for everyone...

I do understand your point about boycotts and agree but perhaps only to a point. You have a tremendous amount of certainty in the economic truth of your statement about boycotts. I'll add my certainty by generalizing the scope: if nobody does anything different then nothing will change. That goes for anything, never mind the Tibetan forests. I may or may not think much of the boycott idea but I certainly don't think it's a waste of time thinking and discussing...

Once again, Pete, my regrets for being clumsy.
 
#45
Silv, this sniping needs to stop, man! To state that I have no right to be posting this kind of thing as I am British by accident of birth,...
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Post whatever you want, it's a free country! I think laugh is what the Chinese would do if you, I or any other "Imperial citizen" chastised them for Tibet. Considering Hong Kong, etc., perhaps they would not be laughing. And why should I succumb to such simplistic thinking? Intelligence is also an accident of birth, it's not like it's my fault that incomplete reasoning just jumps out at me like a sore thumb. Anyway, I was thinking that you were Scottish by birth. Pardon me; British it is. Where's the Stone of Scone when you need it! This has me cogitating so vigorously, I think I need to light that Romeo & Julieta that buddy of mine brought back from Honduras...

Lets see, my senators are Zell Miller (lame duck Demopublican) and Saxby Chambliss (Chicken-hawk opportunist). Maybe if I had a couple more of these Cuban cigars to share.... My representative is John Lewis and then I could write Cynthia McKinney (just 'cause she would totally "get it") also.... Ooh, that's right, they are Democrats and can't get Jack-doo-doo done lately. And before I even think they'll read the mail, maybe if I write "campaign check enclosed" on the outside, they'll actually open it. Thanks for the form letter, Damon;- that saved me quite a lot of compositional duress.

You know, I'm beginning to think that maybe PeteG and Damon and Jeff K. are about the only one's with any clear vision here. I predict that good will have come about due to this thread. I really do.
 
#48
There are too many causes to be concerned about. If you think about it, you probably do about 50 things every day that goes against some kind of activism. Maybe you sleep on a bed made partially in China. You wake up and get in the shower and keep it on for too long, wasting water. Then you dress in clothes that may or may not have been made in a child labor environment. You turn on the light in your kitchen, but you haven't bought one of the energy efficient kind yet. Drink your coffee that probably comes from some inhumane hell hole of a place in South America. Get in your car and drive to work, wasting fossil fuels and polluting the environment. Oh and by the way the car was probably made in Asia... surely this hurts our economy. Get home and play your bass... but oh crap it was made from Tibetan lumber. Turn on your television set, well it was probably made in Asia too. Go to sleep in your nice air conditioned house, wasting a whole buttload of energy overnight just for your personal comfort. Wake up the next morning and do it again.

Nobody has the time or money to have a clear conscience. Stop pretending as though anything you do makes a difference. You can't even eat with a clear conscience. Either the vegetables were made with pesticides or the cow was slaughtered in a factory farm. So for now I'll look for the best deal and try to sleep easy.

:)
 
#50
Tbeers said:
Nobody has the time or money to have a clear conscience. Stop pretending as though anything you do makes a difference.
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Matters of degree count! As I stated earlier, each individual must decide where to draw the line. Arguing that there's just too much about which to be concerned so one should just forget it all is folly and is irresponsible. It is not all or none! Can't imagine what you would have said around, say, September, 1935! There was this maniac in Germany, his name was...
 
#51
You know, I think you're right DRURB. I have to amend my prior statement. If I see two products next to each other and they are comparable except that one was made in questionable conditions or out of questionable materials... I'll choose the legitimate one. Heck, I might even pay a little bit more for it. But I won't pay a lot more for it. That's a matter of degree in itself.

People may have good hearts and care about issues, but at the end of the day that will usually be of secondary importance. Value is king. Still, I note the validity of your point.

What upsets me is people getting all worked up about one issue and acting as though it's the only one around. There are hundreds.. thousands. What makes HIMA basses a bigger concern than the farmers who give us veal?
 
#53
I knew it would get "Off Topic" as soon as I started getting real political. Gee, T, I was about two years younger than you when I became cynical. Still, now and I again I succeed in making a difference. It's possible for me to do that for the place that I live and some of those around me. Much more is overly ambitious.

Right now I'm just glad I don't have a used Hima DB that I'm trying to sell on the internet to make rent.
 
#54
Tbeers said:
What upsets me is people getting all worked up about one issue and acting as though it's the only one around. There are hundreds.. thousands. What makes HIMA basses a bigger concern than the farmers who give us veal?
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Agreed, and that's exactly why I say each of us must draw the line for ourselves. For those of us who have a conscience, we can only hope that we are picking a choosing wisely. Sometimes we only find out 20-30 years later!
 
#56
Tbeers said:
http://netinstruments.com/picture/?p=21682a.jpg

Check out that wood... damn, and for $3500. Arnold's probably right.. the lumber itself might be worth as much or more.
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Does that include shipping? I've found that when ordering some instruments from across the ocean the shipping can be about half the value of the instrument. It's the same way with lumber. The source seems cheap until you calculate the shipping. That kind of math is what leads to local conservation of resources.

I can't tell anything about the spruce from those dark photos. The maple is pretty similar in flame to that on the back of the 300 series Christorphers (laminated though). My guess is that it is not much different from the carved Christophers in quality of wood. Hima reveals it's wood source. Do we know anything about the sources for other Chinese makers?
 
#57
Nubee here, Very pretty bass, but maybe not such a great deal? That is not after set up price or shipping, is it?
Has anyone actually tried one? :bassist: What do they sound like and how do they play? Who do you deal with if there is a problem?

OT... and what's wrong with veal?
Regards,
Dwight
 
#58
KSB - Ken Smith said:
Being that this thread had gone WAY off topic, MODS??.. Please move this Political thread to Off-Topic DB.

That's where THIS Now belongs.
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My thoughts exactly Ken! Better still, close it completely before nobody can actually remember what it was about in the first place (I think thats what Damon was hinting @ in #41).
 
#59
poptime said:
Nubee here, Very pretty bass, but maybe not such a great deal? That is not after set up price or shipping, is it?
Has anyone actually tried one? :bassist: What do they sound like and how do they play? Who do you deal with if there is a problem?

OT... and what's wrong with veal?
Regards,
Dwight
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I played a Hima bass briefly @ a local player/dealers place (and before anyone bl**dy-well starts he has since been tarred, feathered, hung drawn & 1/4'd & had his mother quite seriously insulted). The wood was pretty nice, but the bass was decidedly uninspiring. It had a very dead tone - reminiscent of some of the poorer eastern European instruments flooding the market recently. The classical bods were decidedly unimpressed as well by all accounts.
 
#60
poptime said:
OT... and what's wrong with veal?
Regards,
Dwight
Click to expand...

OT...
That's a joke, right? If not: veal comes from calves who spend their short and miserable lives locked in a cage so small they can't move, thereby preventing them from developing their muscles which provides we the hungry consumers with an especially tender cut of beef. As inhumane as it is, I don't find it to be particularly more disgusting than the horrific practices used throughout the rest of the animal farming industry, but veal has often been used as a main example of how poorly we treat animals and the environment when we apply our factory/mechanization industrial techniques to food production. Check out Invalid Link Removed for some entertainment (including a food pyramid that represents actual consumption in America--it's exactly the reverse of the official recommended pyramid!).
 

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