Hiwatt bass amps

[Bassmec]

One of the ways of getting round the Vintage Hiwatt price tag
But having all the tone and reliability of the old Hylite amps.
Is to buy a little known amp called a Roost SR100/150 Its sort of very close to a Sound City 120 same partridge transformers and basic chassis design as the six tube DR201 variant:
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Extra gain from a 4th 12AX7 giving Marshall super lead type gain if required.
Same weird interactive tone stack as a Hiwatt.
They did smart hand wired work and later transfered to using 3 small high quality pcbs, they are very reliable in use either pcb or hand wired, its the Southend era amps you need to find.
The leeds era heads had different transformers, switches and pots and where not the quality of the old southend stuff.
The firm employed a whole eight people at the hight of production in 1976.
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Vintage-STAK-ROOST-Valve-Tube-Guitar-Amp_W0QQitemZ260634327859QQcategoryZ10171QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp4340.m263QQ_trkparmsZalgo%3DDLSL%252BSIC%26its%3DI%26itu%3DUCI%252BIA%252BUA%252BIEW%252BFICS%252BUFI%26otn%3D8%26pmod%3D270602472292%252B270602472292%26po%3D%26ps%3D63%26clkid%3D6954304631283796991#ht_1221wt_934
This appears to be a partridge equipped 100 watt amp built from bits after the company failed in the late seventies.
Well its got a lot more in common with a hylite hiwatt than a brand new hiwatt.
Heres mine you can keep your bloody Hiwatts there as common as muck:
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[Bassmec]

Without pedals or preamp, Hiwatts will get dirty tone with the preamp volumes generally past 2'clock with active pickups or hot passive pickups and the instrument's volume turned up.

I'll add Glenn Hughes of Deep Purple, Jim Lea of Slade, and Glenn Cornick of Jethro Tull and Wild Turkey to that list.

This seems odd to me. With the exception of Canadian or Sweden export amps, all the old Hiwatts were originally equipped with a voltage selector with taps for 105V (Japan), 115V (N. America), 225V (Mainland Europe & Australia), 245V (Britain). Also, some amps were modified by owner/tech to run fixed voltage.

I'm not sure what maintenance issues you had. Power tubes going bad? The fixed bias EL34 Hiwatts (DR103, DR504, CP103, etc) run pretty hot and they will cook power tubes easily. It's best to stick with NOS Mullard, Winged =C=, or JJ EL34L power tubes since they can handle the Hiwatt juice. The DR201 and DR405 amps with KT88 tubes didn't have this problem since the bias was adjustable. Good call on letting the tubes cool before moving. In my experience, Hiwatts are more durable than other old tube amps.

Glen hughes and the other wolverhampton lad jim lee you mention used to play Carlesbro 200TC's with two by 4 X 15's,
http://www.chambonino.com/carlsbro/carl200tc.html
I used to play wednesdays rock night at club Lafayette wolverhampton and so did Glen and Trapeze back then, Slade rehearsed there and Justin Hayward and John lodge owned the place and ran astra music upstairs and threshold records a bit. I think glen did the burn album before Hiwatt delivered his new gear.
He got a beast sound out of his old short scale fender mustang and the carlesbro rig he liked to play back then.
There where a lot of great old forgotten british amps back then:

8 X EL34l's lots of preset eq buttons cool RCF speakers.
These where also built like brick **** houses and sounded huge:

Partridge Transformers as big as your head hi fi ultra linear 5 wire primary output transformer option.
I have one in almost mint condition but for a couple of small cracks in the huge plexi face plate.
This is all before hiwatt existed of course:
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[CDweller]

Does that amp actually say "Pow!" on it?

 

[sk8]

in a four holer...
plug your bass into bottom left jack. Then patch a cable between top left and bottom right jacks.

Thank you

 

[AwkwardLoudness]

Glen hughes and the other wolverhampton lad jim lee you mention used to play Carlesbro 200TC's with two by 4 X 15's,
http://www.chambonino.com/carlsbro/carl200tc.html
I used to play wednesdays rock night at club Lafayette wolverhampton and so did Glen and Trapeze back then, Slade rehearsed there and Justin Hayward and John lodge owned the place and ran astra music upstairs and threshold records a bit. I think glen did the burn album before Hiwatt delivered his new gear.
He got a beast sound out of his old short scale fender mustang and the carlesbro rig he liked to play back then.
There where a lot of great old forgotten british amps back then:

One of the ways of getting round the Vintage Hiwatt price tag
But having all the tone and reliability of the old Hylite amps.
Is to buy a little known amp called a Roost SR100/150 Its sort of very close to a Sound City 120 same partridge transformers and basic chassis design as the six tube DR201 variant:
Link Removed

In person, I've only seen two vintage Simms Watts, one Carlsboro, and one Roost amp. All of these are owned by a fellow who sold me a cab and later an amp. I wish there were more of the old British amps over here in the States to buy and play. They are quite rare here. Late 60s/70s WEM, White, Sound City, Simms Watts, Laney, Carlsboro, Roost. Old Marshall, Park, Vox, Hiwatt, Matamp, and Orange amps are a bit easier to find here by comparison.

 

[KramerBassFan]

Bassmec, thanks for the British Amp Porn!

Nothing against Fender or Ampeg or Magnatone... but i really just love those Old British amps that us Americans have never heard of.

 

[Bassmec]

Nonsense... the Selmer Chieftan 200 and Carlsbro 200TC (twin channel) both came around 1971-1972.
Hiwatt officially started in late 1967, but there are many "Hiwatt" labeled amps before that... From the period Dave was building the Sound City amps.

It seemed to me like when the Hiwatt shop opened above Central Sound studios in Denmark St London I began to noticed the existence of Hiwatt.
I thought at the time half the Who gear labeled hiwatt was actually Sound City re-badged but since I had a perfectly serviceable Marshal JPM 100 at the time, So what was wrong with Hendricks! (we marshall owners didn't actually socalize with sound city owners back then doncha know!).
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I thought they didn't get any good until Aircraftsman Harry Joyce joined up to sort out the usual rats nest:
http://harry-joyce.com/index.htm
Harry amps are still alive! So you want a newer Hylite Hiwatt?
I only had real GAS for Acoustic, I mean JPJ was actually God back then!
I rediscovered all tube when I accidentally suddenly developed good taste at about the age of thirty.

 

[Bassmec]

Does that amp actually say "Pow!" on it?

Yeah thats a slightly later one than mine which just says super there:
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[Meddle]

One of my favorite basses, John Wetton, used Hiwatt gear.

He got a really nice crunch out of them with King Crimson.

Actually a lot of bands seem to have used Hiwatt gear in the 1970s. I get the impression Hiwatt is often overlooked in favour of Marshalls from that era, though Hiwatt seem to have been more often used?

 

[Bassmec]

One of my favorite basses, John Wetton, used Hiwatt gear.

He got a really nice crunch out of them with King Crimson.

Actually a lot of bands seem to have used Hiwatt gear in the 1970s. I get the impression Hiwatt is often overlooked in favour of Marshalls from that era, though Hiwatt seem to have been more often used?

Yeah but then by 1977 we had punk going on and the sex pistols had Marshall the stranglers bass player played Hiwatt
but the Jam bass player had Marshall??.
This was confusing and inevitably lead to a global recession.
All the factories were on a three day week and an all transistor 400 watt YamahondazakiRoland was like only one dole check.
And better still nobody ever wanted to steal it.
Thus the ignominious end of many great british high end valve amp manufacturers!.
Does any of this ring a bell?!

 

[AwkwardLoudness]

It seemed to me like when the Hiwatt shop opened above Central Sound studios in Denmark St London I began to noticed the existence of Hiwatt.
I thought at the time half the Who gear labeled hiwatt was actually Sound City re-badged but since I had a perfectly serviceable Marshal JPM 100 at the time, So what was wrong with Hendricks! (we marshall owners didn't actually socalize with sound city owners back then doncha know!).

I think you have it reversed. The first large bulk order of Hiwatt amps was purchased by Arbiter's Sound City store in late 1966 or 1967, and the head boxes were likely badged as 'Sound City'. Among this batch of amps were the first Hiwatt amps that The Who used. Hendrix got one too (among other amps) after arriving in London with Chas Chandler, but he most used the SC in the studio. Later on, Pete Townsend started buying direct from David Reeves. A couple examples of these Hiwatt built Sound City amps:
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Hiwatt label on the chassis
Another SC 'One Hundred' amp

Hiwatt's supplier partnership with Sound City didn't last long, maybe a year at most.

I thought they didn't get any good until Aircraftsman Harry Joyce joined up to sort out the usual rats nest.

Not Correct. Harry Joyce's crew became a contractor hired by David Reeves in late 1970 in order to help Hiwatt keep up with growing demand. Having seen and played several pre-Joyce Hiwatts and Joyce wired Hiwatts, I don't believe there was much difference in wiring quality. Harry Joyce's crew were excellent at what they did, and that's why the perfectionist Reeves chose them. Harry Joyce did not work for Sound City as your sort-of implies, though it depends on who you meant by 'they'.

Hiwatt amps were not 'rat's nests' before Harry Joyce was involved:
1967 Hiwatt DR504 guts
1969 Hiwatt DR103 guts
1969 Hiwatt DR201 guts

This is my '74 DR103 which was wired by Joyce or perhaps someone in his crew. You can tell by the ink marks and the 'HJ' written on the chassis. It's a little neater, but the difference is subtle.

 

[AwkwardLoudness]

http://harry-joyce.com/index.htm
Harry amps are still alive!

Dave Reeves was a wirer at the Sound City Factory. He saw what he felt were deficiencies in the basic Sound City design and set out to create his own circuit that delivered the sound he heard in his head. After a period of trial and error Dave felt he found it and decided to start his own company, Hiwatt. In need of people to start production, he looked in the phone book under wiring and found the name Harry Joyce.

Whoever wrote that was terribly misinformed. Reeves designed the earliest Sound City amps and Hiwatt existed prior to that. Production began years before Harry Joyce's involvement. This is the chronology according to the Reeves family: http://hiwatt.org/history.html

 

[Bassmec]

It seemed to me like when the Hiwatt shop opened above Central Sound studios in Denmark St London I began to noticed the existence of Hiwatt.
I thought at the time half the Who gear labeled hiwatt was actually Sound City re-badged but since I had a perfectly serviceable Marshal JPM 100 at the time, So what was wrong with Hendricks! (we marshall owners didn't actually socalize with sound city owners back then doncha know!).
Invalid Link Removed
I thought they didn't get any good until Aircraftsman Harry Joyce joined up to sort out the usual rats nest:
http://harry-joyce.com/index.htm
Harry amps are still alive! So you want a newer Hylite Hiwatt?
I only had real GAS for Acoustic, I mean JPJ was actually God back then!
I rediscovered all tube when I accidentally suddenly developed good taste at about the age of thirty.

I think you have it reversed. The first large bulk order of Hiwatt amps was purchased by Arbiter's Sound City store in late 1966 or 1967, and the head boxes were likely badged as 'Sound City'. Among this batch of amps were the first Hiwatt amps that The Who used. Hendrix got one too (among other amps) after arriving in London with Chas Chandler, but he most used the SC in the studio. Later on, Pete Townsend started buying direct from David Reeves. A couple examples of these Hiwatt built Sound City amps:
Invalid Link Removed
Hiwatt label on the chassis
Another SC 'One Hundred' amp

Hiwatt's supplier partnership with Sound City didn't last long, maybe a year at most.

Not Correct. Harry Joyce's crew became a contractor hired by David Reeves in late 1970 in order to help Hiwatt keep up with growing demand. Having seen and played several pre-Joyce Hiwatts and Joyce wired Hiwatts, I don't believe there was much difference in wiring quality. Harry Joyce's crew were excellent at what they did, and that's why the perfectionist Reeves chose them. Harry Joyce did not work for Sound City as your sort-of implies, though it depends on who you meant by 'they'.

Hiwatt amps were not 'rat's nests' before Harry Joyce was involved:
1967 Hiwatt DR504 guts
1969 Hiwatt DR103 guts
1969 Hiwatt DR201 guts

This is my '74 DR103 which was wired by Joyce or perhaps someone in his crew. You can tell by the ink marks and the 'HJ' written on the chassis.

I am certain you are correct, I was not very compus mentis in the seventies as it happens.
I think all old Hiwatts are great as are some but not all old Marshall amps.
This bloke has a good idea of a couple of mods for an old Carlesbro 200 if you have a few minutes and a hot iron and solder handy
http://www.chambonino.com/construct/const10.html

 

[sk8]

practiced with the DR201 last night. Its very clean and fat and above all funking heavy

Whats the presence knob do and what happens when i bridge the main and bright inputs?

 

[AwkwardLoudness]

Sk8, bridging the inputs links the 'Normal' and 'Brill' channels. This allows for more tone versatility and more gain when the pre-amp volumes are cranked. The presence knob adds some additional responsiveness to string attack and feedbacking sustain. The knob needs to be turned past the 2 o'clock position in order to make any real difference. Also, the presence knob's effect is stronger as the treble knob is turned up.

 

[sk8]

thanks for the reply AwkwardLoudness. I did bridge them last night at practice but will have more of a play with them next time.

Is it a passive EQ - ie mids are cut at 12 o'clock???

Sounded great though Just figuring whether i want some more grind like Orange of Matamp type sounds or maybe i'll just use a pedal in front of the Hiwatt.

 

[chanson]

Someone please buy this, because I can't...

http://cgi.ebay.com/RARE-Matamp-NEC...tem&pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item335f011a57

 

[AwkwardLoudness]

thanks for the reply AwkwardLoudness. I did bridge them last night at practice but will have more of a play with them next time.

Is it a passive EQ - ie mids are cut at 12 o'clock???

Sounded great though Just figuring whether i want some more grind like Orange of Matamp type sounds or maybe i'll just use a pedal in front of the Hiwatt.

The EQ is passive. Tube amps with active EQ have no sound when all the tone controls are turned all the way down, so that's the simplest way to know. I'm not sure about the mid cut. I'd just turn the treble and bass knobs up and the middle knob down if you want scooped mids. xsubs is perhaps correct about dialing in a flat EQ on Hiwatts.

 

[Bigjohn]

???
The VB2 uses up to date pcb technology and the Hiwatt uses 1950's terminal strips and wiring.
You couldn't build the VB2 with methods used in that old Hiwatt anyways. The VB2 circuit is too complex, too many components. The old Hiwatt is a simple circuit.
And don't knock the VB2 because it uses printed circuit boards, old 1969 Ampeg SVT's use printed circuit boards. Every SVT that's been made uses printed circuit boards. That VB2 design looks great.
I think the guts of old Hiwatts are pretty and retro cool but point to point wiring doesn't sound any different/better than a properly designed an layed out printed circuit board. The whole point to point romanticism is dubious.
I'm a huge Hiwatt fan for many years but I'm just saying, it's big $$ for a nameplate. I mentioned and suggested the VB2 because like the classic 100W Hiwatts that many players used in the late 60's / early 70's, the VB2 is EL34 based.
But the VB2 is more powerful and has modern features.
The VB2 is a great sounding, powerful and unique EL34 bass amp for a fraction of the price.

Sure... that makes sense

Peavey VB2

Hiwatt DR201

Don't get me wrong, I LOVED my tweed Peavey Classic 400 (8xKT88) head A LOT! But it is no way comparable (nor is the VB2) to anything made by Hiwatt or Reeve.

 

[edbass]

The VB2 uses up to date pcb technology and the Hiwatt uses 1950's terminal strips and wiring.

The whole point to point romanticism is dubious.

Are we looking at the same pictures? I don't see any terminal strips, and it ain't even close to point to point wiring.
Hiwatts use turret board construction.
Terminal strip construction uses terminal strips, and point to point is, well, exactly what is says; "point to point".

I'm a huge Hiwatt fan for many years but I'm just saying, it's big $$ for a nameplate.

The big money is for the skilled labor/workmanship, and top shelf components. That, and for persons in the US, the exchange rate.
Peavey makes great gear for the money, but the pictures tell the story.
The VB2 is a mass produced, inexpensive toy by comparison, and looks it. Just another "throw away" amp; in 20 years when those flimsy proprietary PCB's aren't available anymore they'll probably be almost worthless.
The hand wired stuff will just keep chugging along, easily repairable by any competent solder jockey armed with a schematic - AND... Undoubtedly still be bringing premium money on the open market.

I'm not saying that there's anything wrong with the Peavey, it just is what it is. As far as being successful as a MI manufacturer, Hiwatt isn't even in the same universe as Peavey. Hands down Peavey is a shining star success story in the very competitive MI world.
But to stay on topic relative to your post; the gear is meant to appeal to limited budgets. I imagine "affordable" is the word Peavey's marketing department would use, but “cheap” is the operative word I’d use; not to be derogatory, just as an accurate descriptor.
Regretfully a “cheap” price point almost has to be achieved by use of “cheap” construction methods and materials.
Of course, they are such a low price point that vs. a DR201 you could buy three of them and still have enough money left over to get a couple of nice cabs! You could keep two as backups in case you had an on road failure, or to use when the original one gives up it's magic smoke.
All in all, IMO the VB2 probably makes much more sense for the average "casual player".

But comparing it from a quality aspect to a Hiwatt (or Reeves, /13, Handwired Marshall, etc.) is just plain ludicrous.