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Hobbyists -vs- Real Musicians?

#301
cerrem said:
PRO = getting paid....
PRO = PROFESSION, then this is your way of income... Typically means Full-Time
PRO = PROFESSIONAL ....could mean Full time or Part time...could be $1 or could be $$$ MILLIONS....
A PRO could also be a " Working Girl" .... usually part-time ...she could be very good or she could totally suck...

But whether or not the PRO is any good a MUSICIAN is another entire can or worms.... LOL
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Ummm, isn't that one of the things that would make her good?
 
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#303
Someone earlier made a distinction between "pro" and "pro-level." I think "pro-level" is a very useful term. A number of folks here used to earn their living playing music but are part-timers now. They're still most likely pro-level players. They know the ropes, the expectations, the dos-and-don'ts. The definition of a "real" musician is going to be hopelessly subjective, and the unqualified use of "professional" can be pretty squishy, too.
 
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#304
According to this formula, there were hardly any "Real Musicians" from 2009 through the last year or two when the economy started to recover. I can't imagine how few there were from 1929 through 1935. It's a wonder any music survives from that era, considering no one was working at any job five days or nights per week. :roflmao: Let's be serious, some of us would rather be semi retired from the dive bar gig scene. There's not much fun, money or safety in it anymore. The opportunity to support yourself solely with music is available to a very small minority of musicians. That squarely puts the majority of us in the other camp. The point isn't to knock another musician for their circumstances, choices, musical genre or gear. We are all different and the bass allows us the display that through our music. There's nothing better than learning from talented musicians and expanding our knowledge because of them. Talent and inspiration are not limited to those with the most formal training. There can be novel ways of phrasing and innovating from those who never learned scales or to sight read. You can gain insight from them, too. Even if they play a Squier. Or not. OP, good of you to bring this up.
 
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#305
I’d like to think that I’m a real musician. I started getting paid in high school and once out, after college and the army I toured for a living. I knew great musicians and got to work with some.

In town there’s a bass player who’s technically ok but not a natural. But he has a $5,000 bass and an Eden. What he can’t do musically he makes up for in snobbery.
 
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#306
secretdonkey said:
The definition of a "real" musician is going to be hopelessly subjective
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I think unfortunately there is no "objective truth" out there. Not as far as what makes "professional musicians". I know the recipe of course; come in on time, know your parts, know how to harmonize, put in an opinion when necessary. All subjective, I know.

The band end of things, some objectivity can be applied. The passable band that meanders in, sets up slowly, plays ok, noodles on end and has a set list is the "ok band". The band that *somehow* comes in all together, draws a crowd, plays solid tunes, and leaves the crowd wanting more is considered the "professional" good band. I mean, one of these bands is playing weddings and reeling in an income, while the other is playing half empty dives for peanuts (with the audience formerly in the venue outside smoking waiting for the next band).
 
#307
I consider myself a pro, I have been playing since I was 5 years old it is all I have known. I have put in the work blood, sweat, etc. do I gig every week ? no but I play enough to say I am full time. the least that I will play for is $100 within an hours radius, that rules out the crappy paying gigs for which I would rather stay home and shed. the hobby part for me is collecting and selling basses.
 
#309
MultiScaleMale said:
Who fronts just about all bands? Rush aside, the dude / dudette out front is playing guitar and singing. Generally they have all the writing credits too. If I were to suggest a path to musical success and prosperity, it wouldn't be bass. Get out front, sing and have the band named after you. Unfortunately I have a vocal range of about three notes. I would literally kill to get the voice of some of the people that I know.
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Thankfully, that hasn't been my experience in the half-century or so that I've been playing. I've never felt that I had less than equal billing with the other band members, or equal attention from the audience members. You get out of live performance what you put into it. Regarding song writing credits, you kinda gotta write the song to get credit. Just following the changes isn't enough. I agree that singing will call attention to you, but so will "owning" your three square feet (or more) of the stage.

Obviously, YMMV (and apparently does!)
 
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#311
We gig a fair amount, I pull in some extra money and I can do most styles but suck at jazz. There a couple of guys who know theory up and down, can play things I never thought of and know why they're playing it, but don't gig nearly as much. I play bass. Those guys are musicians.
 
#312
The difference between a hobbyist and a real musician is the time they put in in order to play and IF they play. Period. A hobbyist will play in his bedroom/basement or whatever and never take the time to step out. A real musician will take that leap...even if they are not a good musician...

My two cents ...
 
#313
Sav'nBass said:
The difference between a hobbyist and a real musician is the time they put in in order to play and IF they play. Period. A hobbyist will play in his bedroom/basement or whatever and never take the time to step out. A real musician will take that leap...even if they are not a good musician...

My two cents ...
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I've taken the time to learn and play various styles of music and gigged accordingly, however I still consider myself a weekend warrior/hobbyist.
 
#315
A lot of nitpicking and differing opinions in this thread. Bottom line is if you don't play for money, you are a hobbyist musician. If you play for money, you are a professional musician albeit different levels of 'pro'. Either part-time or fulltime (meaning it's your only source of income). I know cats who make $25k-$30k a year gigging and still work a day job.

And to the statement that one is a hobbyist if they play (pro) but don't understand music......well.....that's your opinion. The fact is that 'musician' is a professional and is in fact a 'musician'. Hobby=no pay.
 
#316
Ever heard the phrase "Starving musician?" So common it became a cliche. If you play an instrument and make notes on it, and work to imrpove and develop ability with it over the years.. you're a musician. Pros might get paid for it, and usually have quite a bit of education involved with it as well as technical ability.

musician
[ myoo-zish-uh n ]

noun
1. a person who makes music a profession, especially as a performer of music.
2 .any person, whether professional or not, skilled in music.

I think I'll go with the definition from dictionary.com rather than my fellow musicians and our inflatable egos on this one.
 
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#320
MultiScaleMale said:
A frequent side topic on many threads covers "real musicians" - you have to gig five nights a week to consider yourself a real musician. And then the - if you don't play originals, you're just playing someone else's music, might as well be a juke box -vs- play covers - it's what the crowd wants to hear. Then the classic - if you have expensive basses, you're a bedroom hack, it's all in the fingers.

Why do we care so much about what everyone else is doing? We're all bassists and just the fact that we chose bass means that we're largely taking a backseat to the rest of the band. Copyrights are determined by lyrics, chord progressions and melodies. Screw the bass line. If we really wanted to be successful musicians, we'd work on vocal skills and play an acoustic fronting a band. So, maybe it's pent up frustration about nobody really caring about what the bass does until we screw up - then people notice.

If you just enjoy playing at home - that's great! You're still playing bass! If you play originals - awesome! If you're into covers or a tribute - rock it strong! Play a Squier - kudos! Play a MTD - great! Only a very few are actually going to make a living at this. Getting home at 2:30AM for $75-100 gets old quickly for some.

If you are playing bass and find enjoyment in what you do, you're doing it right.
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I'm not sure playing out makes you a real musician either...I used to be a busy guy playing bar gigs and play as a hobbie and Iim more a musician now then I was then...then again never have had a sustainable living from it either..just love it.havent ever considered myself a pro but I know some pro caliber musicians with day jobs...are they no longer real musicians ?
 

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