Yes I do. I didn’t say they MUST read music , I said they must understand it as opposed to learning how to play some songs .
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Hobbyists -vs- Real Musicians?
- Thread starter MultiScaleMale
- Start date
Yes I do. I didn’t say they MUST read music , I said they must understand it as opposed to learning how to play some songs .
To me, it's very simple. I'm a musician. I have played bass since I was 14 years old. And I'm a hobbyist, as I don't play music for a living and never have.
If I consider myself to be a musician, I am, and the opinion of others is immaterial. But I'm not a professional.
All the rest is white noise. You are in charge of your own life, so don't worry about the categories other people dream up.
If I consider myself to be a musician, I am, and the opinion of others is immaterial. But I'm not a professional.
All the rest is white noise. You are in charge of your own life, so don't worry about the categories other people dream up.
- Sep 11, 2016
- 1,199
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- Endorsing Artist: LowEnd basses, DR Strings, Warm Audio, Shaw Audio
If you play either professional or at your own leisure you’re a musician. If you love music and push yourself to become better at it that’s what counts. Yes this is my profession but I jam all the time with closet players and learn great stuff from them. That’s what musicianship is all about to me. I don’t care if they are “pro” or doing it for a “hobby”. If they can play enjoy playing and wanna jam. Let’s do it!
being a real musician has nothing to do with gigging 5 nights a week or playing covers or originals.
Yes, this whole 15-page thread has been a false dichotomy and played out pretty much the way is has every time it's posed...
There are hobby _bands_ - but they (sometimes? mostly?) have real musicians in them...
Unless it's about tone wood thoughts...
Nope, don't care there either. If others choose to remain less informed that's on them.
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Take out the egos, posturing, rationalizations, etc., and one is left with one definition.
If you make music you are a musician. Period.
It doesn't matter how much you get paid.
It doesn't matter even IF you get paid.
How can one be more pro than someone else? Damn.
By some's definition, I would say Little Genius was more of a PRO musician at four years old than most anybody in here...or totally an amateur...
Some of us don't really care about any label. I don't.
Some others may need to get nice tshirts, guitar/case stickers, window decals, beer coozies, custom picks, silk screened grill cloth, ball caps, custom john roll, etc. printed up just in case somebody didn't know just how more pro one might be in comparison to other pros or even foolish amateurs... Some tshirts printed reverse in case they themselves walked in front of a mirror as to be reminded just how mondo freaking pro one is...
Some in the thread are interesting views, some typical fodder, and with some, I think the posters seem to be needlessly concerned about their self perceived 'inferior status' in the greatly mysterious levels of the musician hierarchy that the world seems to revolve around...with some...
Hmmm... I never got a secret decoder ring, shiny badge, or a whistle... I guess I wasn't worthy... Cool.
A. There are so called pro musicians that could screw up a one chord blues tune...but get paid for making racket...
B. There's an older guy I've known since I was a young teen that sits in his yard with a 400 and can play Chet, Travis, Garland, Pass, Django, etc... without breaking a sweat... Hasn't gigged in decades. You want to run that hobbyist/barely-amateur/amateur/almost-pro/kinda-pro/full-blown-pro/way-more-pro-than-you bidness at him? I'll damn sure watch that conversation....
Which of the two above would be the pro? Which definition of pro. WHOSE definition of pro.
Play some music. Doesn't matter who wrote it. Have fun playing it. Play whatever you want. Play for free, play for money, play for kicks, play for the two year old bar-jar pickled eggs and sausage. Who cares....
You make music. You are a musician... Period.
Seen more musicianship in a kid in the shop holding a guitar for the first time, and hearing him half ass pluck out some melody bouncing around in his brain, than some folks with high dollar stuff around them. THAT is making music in its purest form.
The old man sitting in the park blowing a simple tune on a five dollar harp. THAT is making music in its purest form....
Carry on.....
If you make music you are a musician. Period.
It doesn't matter how much you get paid.
It doesn't matter even IF you get paid.
How can one be more pro than someone else? Damn.
By some's definition, I would say Little Genius was more of a PRO musician at four years old than most anybody in here...or totally an amateur...
Some of us don't really care about any label. I don't.
Some others may need to get nice tshirts, guitar/case stickers, window decals, beer coozies, custom picks, silk screened grill cloth, ball caps, custom john roll, etc. printed up just in case somebody didn't know just how more pro one might be in comparison to other pros or even foolish amateurs... Some tshirts printed reverse in case they themselves walked in front of a mirror as to be reminded just how mondo freaking pro one is...
Some in the thread are interesting views, some typical fodder, and with some, I think the posters seem to be needlessly concerned about their self perceived 'inferior status' in the greatly mysterious levels of the musician hierarchy that the world seems to revolve around...with some...
Hmmm... I never got a secret decoder ring, shiny badge, or a whistle... I guess I wasn't worthy... Cool.
A. There are so called pro musicians that could screw up a one chord blues tune...but get paid for making racket...
B. There's an older guy I've known since I was a young teen that sits in his yard with a 400 and can play Chet, Travis, Garland, Pass, Django, etc... without breaking a sweat... Hasn't gigged in decades. You want to run that hobbyist/barely-amateur/amateur/almost-pro/kinda-pro/full-blown-pro/way-more-pro-than-you bidness at him? I'll damn sure watch that conversation....
Which of the two above would be the pro? Which definition of pro. WHOSE definition of pro.
Play some music. Doesn't matter who wrote it. Have fun playing it. Play whatever you want. Play for free, play for money, play for kicks, play for the two year old bar-jar pickled eggs and sausage. Who cares....
You make music. You are a musician... Period.
Seen more musicianship in a kid in the shop holding a guitar for the first time, and hearing him half ass pluck out some melody bouncing around in his brain, than some folks with high dollar stuff around them. THAT is making music in its purest form.
The old man sitting in the park blowing a simple tune on a five dollar harp. THAT is making music in its purest form....
Carry on.....
I told you it's for my callouses because I play so much. It's medical.
Not sure the purpose of the question.... And to the original poster of this question..
How will these answers and responses change anything...?????
In any field or profession.....there will always be the " My D$$K is bigger than your D$$K" condescending attitude....
I deal with it everyday in my engineering field.... someone with a higher degree than me will try to put me down... But then I destroy them and run circles around them in electrical analysis and they get mad...because they have EGO issues like most males ....
Most of the time Bass players use the term "PRO" to try to separate themselves from the pack and act like an elitist A$$hole... their ego needs to put others down...
I am very cautious when I see wanted musician adds ..especially when they use the word PRO in every sentence....
Technically I can say was a pro... I worked sessions in NYC back in the 80's... I read sheet music, I know music theory in depth, can transpose on the spot..I worked in a few wedding bands in NY for over 15 years and made a ton of money... Played most of the big venues in NY and NJ back in the 80's from metal to pop..I studied music from the time I was 5 and even went to college for a few semester majoring in music... I have a ton of vintage and modern amps and basses...
Do I call myself a Pro ??.... not at all ....
Do I have way more professional experience than most clowns calling themselves pros ???....probably...
Do I get called a hobbyist bass player from the local bands I audition for?? ....yes ...that's fine..doesn't bother me....if that helps boast their ego some more.....
The players I call PRO MUSICIANS are bass players like Will Lee ... and similar session players...
The terms have been skewed over the years......
In the old days... a MUSICIAN was typically someone formally trained and well studied in music... and would play for a big band or orchestra... reading music was the norm......just like reading a book...
When working was called a PRO....when out of work called a "Musician" ...
A " Street Musician" or "Traveling Musician" in the old days was a Gypsy .... They were good at playing their instruments and not formally trained... travelling from town to town for money or thieving....
The Traveling Blues musicians..... too many to list.... usually not formally trained, however very talented ..traveled to make money playing the blues and folk...
Since Rock was popular..... garage bands one day then made it to the top the next day.... these are PROS since they get millions of dollars playing world tours...
Are some of these PROS any good ?? some can barely play.. some are amazing...
One must judge for themselves what a MUSICIAN is ...
Paul McCartney and John Lennon did not read music.... however, their contributions to the world of songwriting put them in a special class of Musicians..
At the end of the day...It's just a LABEL .....
How will these answers and responses change anything...?????
In any field or profession.....there will always be the " My D$$K is bigger than your D$$K" condescending attitude....
I deal with it everyday in my engineering field.... someone with a higher degree than me will try to put me down... But then I destroy them and run circles around them in electrical analysis and they get mad...because they have EGO issues like most males ....
Most of the time Bass players use the term "PRO" to try to separate themselves from the pack and act like an elitist A$$hole... their ego needs to put others down...
I am very cautious when I see wanted musician adds ..especially when they use the word PRO in every sentence....
Technically I can say was a pro... I worked sessions in NYC back in the 80's... I read sheet music, I know music theory in depth, can transpose on the spot..I worked in a few wedding bands in NY for over 15 years and made a ton of money... Played most of the big venues in NY and NJ back in the 80's from metal to pop..I studied music from the time I was 5 and even went to college for a few semester majoring in music... I have a ton of vintage and modern amps and basses...
Do I call myself a Pro ??.... not at all ....
Do I have way more professional experience than most clowns calling themselves pros ???....probably...
Do I get called a hobbyist bass player from the local bands I audition for?? ....yes ...that's fine..doesn't bother me....if that helps boast their ego some more.....
The players I call PRO MUSICIANS are bass players like Will Lee ... and similar session players...
The terms have been skewed over the years......
In the old days... a MUSICIAN was typically someone formally trained and well studied in music... and would play for a big band or orchestra... reading music was the norm......just like reading a book...
When working was called a PRO....when out of work called a "Musician" ...
A " Street Musician" or "Traveling Musician" in the old days was a Gypsy .... They were good at playing their instruments and not formally trained... travelling from town to town for money or thieving....
The Traveling Blues musicians..... too many to list.... usually not formally trained, however very talented ..traveled to make money playing the blues and folk...
Since Rock was popular..... garage bands one day then made it to the top the next day.... these are PROS since they get millions of dollars playing world tours...
Are some of these PROS any good ?? some can barely play.. some are amazing...
One must judge for themselves what a MUSICIAN is ...
Paul McCartney and John Lennon did not read music.... however, their contributions to the world of songwriting put them in a special class of Musicians..
At the end of the day...It's just a LABEL .....
PRO = getting paid....
PRO = PROFESSION, then this is your way of income... Typically means Full-Time
PRO = PROFESSIONAL ....could mean Full time or Part time...could be $1 or could be $$$ MILLIONS....
A PRO could also be a " Working Girl" .... usually part-time ...she could be very good or she could totally suck...
But whether or not the PRO is any good a MUSICIAN is another entire can or worms.... LOL
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This thread has exposed a lot of chips on a lot of shoulders. Next one will be a thread about "bass player" or "instrumentalist" versus "musician"
