Hofner-(not just Beatle Basses)-Group Part 2

[steve_rolfeca]

I spent some more time on the Ignition Club this evening. It's funny how quickly I'm going from "meh" to loving this thing.

The stock controls completely threw me for a loop in the store, but I'm finding it easy to use in Vol/Vol mode- just leave all 3 switches up. That lets me blend the pickups normally, and I still have some extra booty in hand by flipping the Bass switch down.

I am waiting for a callback from my dealer about the possibility of bagging a CT Club- I'd like the zero fret, the 3-piece neck, the cleaner fretwork, etc., but I'm starting to wonder a.) if I need the bling, and b.) whether I really want a block under the bridge.

I'm finding this one extremely responsive to touch and hand position, and I think the hollow body is part of that. I find the same thing when I play guitar- with a semi-hollow ES335 or ES339, I'm constantly fiddling with the controls. On my Casino Coupe (based on the ES-339 but a true hollowbody), I barely touch them once I dial in a basic sound.

 

[Doctor Intrepid]

I spent some more time on the Ignition Club this evening. It's funny how quickly I'm going from "meh" to loving this thing.

The stock controls completely threw me for a loop in the store, but I'm finding it easy to use in Vol/Vol mode- just leave all 3 switches up. That lets me blend the pickups normally, and I still have some extra booty in hand by flipping the Bass switch down.

I am waiting for a callback from my dealer about the possibility of bagging a CT Club- I'd like the zero fret, the 3-piece neck, the cleaner fretwork, etc., but I'm starting to wonder a.) if I need the bling, and b.) whether I really want a block under the bridge.

I'm finding this one extremely responsive to touch and hand position, and I think the hollow body is part of that. I find the same thing when I play guitar- with a semi-hollow ES335 or ES339, I'm constantly fiddling with the controls. On my Casino Coupe (based on the ES-339 but a true hollowbody), I barely touch them once I dial in a basic sound.

I had a similar experience and now I have 6 Hofners! I'm sure you will figure out what is best for you, but the CT is a well crafted instrument.

 

[DavesnothereCA]

I spent some more time on the Ignition Club this evening. It's funny how quickly I'm going from "meh" to loving this thing.

The stock controls completely threw me for a loop in the store, but I'm finding it easy to use in Vol/Vol mode- just leave all 3 switches up. That lets me blend the pickups normally, and I still have some extra booty in hand by flipping the Bass switch down.

I am waiting for a callback from my dealer about the possibility of bagging a CT Club- I'd like the zero fret, the 3-piece neck, the cleaner fretwork, etc., but I'm starting to wonder a.) if I need the bling, and b.) whether I really want a block under the bridge.

I'm finding this one extremely responsive to touch and hand position, and I think the hollow body is part of that. I find the same thing when I play guitar- with a semi-hollow ES335 or ES339, I'm constantly fiddling with the controls. On my Casino Coupe (based on the ES-339 but a true hollowbody), I barely touch them once I dial in a basic sound.

I had a similar experience and now I have 6 Hofners! I'm sure you will figure out what is best for you, but the CT is a well crafted instrument.

~
Notwithstanding what we may feel about the comparative build quality, the design differences are worthy of attention.

I do like the idea of a zero fret, as it makes nut adjustments easier to do safely, and the open notes sound more like fretted notes in tone.

Intonation when first received from the factory is typically more accurate too with a zero fret-equipped instrument, as it is more likely to be at the proper height than open notes of an instrument with an ordinary nut.

My first encounter with such a method was with another German brand, Framus, on an acoustic guitar, and it looks like several German makes have done this over the years, the most recent which I have noticed being - is it Sandberg ?

Centre blocks add weight to an instrument, but that said, going from just over 5 pounds to just over 6 is something which I could handle, and the instrument would be a bit more tough as well, likely better balanced [less prone to neck dive], and possibly less resonance-induced feedback in the lower frequencies.

BTW, I have been told that the fully hollow Hofner basses still have a sound post under the bridge, much like in a violin, but have not so far tried to look inside of mine with a dental mirror thru the control panel aperture.

As mentioned earlier, I fully expect that one day, a Contemporary Club bass will creep into my stable, if I can find one which is not too expensive, and in a finish colour which I like, which excludes black.

My cat is mostly black though [tuxedo], and I'm rather fond of her.
~

 

[steve_rolfeca]

...Centre blocks add weight to an instrument, but that said, going from just over 5 pounds to just over 6 is something which I could handle, and the instrument would be a bit more tough as well, likely better balanced [less prone to neck dive], and possibly less resonance-induced feedback in the lower frequencies.

BTW, I have been told that the fully hollow Hofner basses still have a sound post under the bridge, much like in a violin, but have not so far tried to look inside of mine with a dental mirror thru the control panel aperture.

I grew up performing at a wide range of functions, and as a hired gun, I had to be ready for anything. That meant ample firepower on the backline, and instruments that were noise-free and feedback-proof.

For years, I carried that ethos into all my gear purchases. However, my gigging needs have changed. These days, I mostly play church music, occasional outdoor gigs with rented backline, and charity work at conferences, and in nursing homes.

As a result, my current rig choices are total overkill. That has allowed me to start investigating semis and hollowbody instruments more carefully, and I'm liking what I hear. I can make the Ignition feed back if I put my cab up on a stand and lean into it, but otherwise, it's highly unlikely to be a problem.

Meanwhile, there are some pretty cool things you can do with note bloom and edge-of-feedback tones at medium volume. Especially if you're into crafting soundscapes, which I enjoy doing at home.

 

[steve_rolfeca]

There are apparently only 3 Hofner dealers in Canada, and no-one has a CT Club in stock.

Hofner advised my dealer that they don't have a firm restocking date, could be 60 days out or more.

In the meantime, I re-tried their CT Cavern Violin, in an attempt to get some idea of what a CT Club might feel like.

Pro:

• Better finished. Paint,fingerboard, etc. show greater attention to detail. Fretwork in particular, is streets ahead.
• Higher trim level (bound fingerboard, nicer lumber, 3-piece neck, zero fret, etc.).
• Sturdier feel, tuning more stable, probably due to the center block.
• Likelihood of needing periodic neck resets (a common Hofner problem) is lower, also thanks to the block.
• German tailpiece and pickups, much smoother low-ratio tuners, sturdy ebony bridge, better pots, knobs with visible pointers.
• Tone is tighter and more articulate, growls nicely in the lower register.
• I like the look of the narrower, rounded heel, and the way it's set seems to enhance upper fret access.

Con:

• Appallingly tight string spacing, acres of fingerboard wasted. Makes it feel clumsy, and harder to pluck.
• Can be fixed easily at the bridge, but requires a new nut/spacer thingamabob at the headstock.
• Finish under the fingerboard extension is crude.
• Acoustic output is nearly non-existent, ruining it as a couch bass.
• Feels inert, and lacks resonance compared to the more lively Ignition.
• Deeper, U-shape neck carve and tight spacing don't feel as natural in my large hands.
• I've already fixed the frets on my Ignition, only needs tuners, a zero-fret nut and maybe a German bridge to finish.
• $500-plus price premium for the Contemporary, and it still needs setup work...

I like nice things, and a Contemporary would certainly look more in line with my favourite instruments. I don't spend much on clothes or other hobbies, and I normally think of $1,100 or so as the entry level to nice instruments, which right where the CT falls in Canadian $$$.

On the other hand, my spruced-up Ignition already feels pretty good to me, and I like the lively acoustic qualities it offers. Plus, this is something of a one-trick pony, which makes the Ignition's low price point that much more attractive. In a shootout with a Contemporary, I could see it going either way.

The pros and cons are too close to call at this point, meaning that I'll have to wait until there's stock available again.

Since the Ignition was already a scratch and dent, the dealer has agreed to let me return it with small restocking fee if I upgrade to a CT. All I have to do is keep it looking clean and stock.

 

[Doctor Intrepid]

There are apparently only 3 Hofner dealers in Canada, and no-one has a CT Club in stock.

Hofner advised my dealer that they don't have a firm restocking date, could be 60 days out or more.

In the meantime, I re-tried their CT Cavern Violin, in an attempt to get some idea of what a CT Club might feel like.

Pro:

• Better finished. Paint,fingerboard, etc. show greater attention to detail. Fretwork in particular, is streets ahead.
• Higher trim level (bound fingerboard, nicer lumber, 3-piece neck, zero fret, etc.).
• Sturdier feel, tuning more stable, probably due to the center block.
• Likelihood of needing periodic neck resets (a common Hofner problem) is lower, also thanks to the block.
• German tailpiece and pickups, much smoother low-ratio tuners, sturdy ebony bridge, better pots, knobs with visible pointers.
• Tone is tighter and more articulate, growls nicely in the lower register.
• I like the look of the narrower, rounded heel, and the way it's set seems to enhance upper fret access.

Con:

• Appallingly tight string spacing, acres of fingerboard wasted. Makes it feel clumsy, and harder to pluck.
• Can be fixed easily at the bridge, but requires a new nut/spacer thingamabob at the headstock.
• Finish under the fingerboard extension is crude.
• Acoustic output is nearly non-existent, ruining it as a couch bass.
• Feels inert, and lacks resonance compared to the more lively Ignition.
• Deeper, U-shape neck carve and tight spacing don't feel as natural in my large hands.
• I've already fixed the frets on my Ignition, only needs tuners, a zero-fret nut and maybe a German bridge to finish.
• $500-plus price premium for the Contemporary, and it still needs setup work...

I like nice things, and a Contemporary would certainly look more in line with my favourite instruments. I don't spend much on clothes or other hobbies, and I normally think of $1,100 or so as the entry level to nice instruments, which right where the CT falls in Canadian $$$.

On the other hand, my spruced-up Ignition already feels pretty good to me, and I like the lively acoustic qualities it offers. Plus, this is something of a one-trick pony, which makes the Ignition's low price point that much more attractive. In a shootout with a Contemporary, I could see it going either way.

The pros and cons are too close to call at this point, meaning that I'll have to wait until there's stock available again.

Since the Ignition was already a scratch and dent, the dealer has agreed to let me return it with small restocking fee if I upgrade to a CT. All I have to do is keep it looking clean and stock.

You should check out Reverb. A guy was selling a Violin CT for 600 CAD. I was so tempted, but I already had 5 Hofners at that point.

 

[steve_rolfeca]

You should check out Reverb. A guy was selling a Violin CT for 600 CAD. I was so tempted, but I already had 5 Hofners at that point.

The violin form factor isn't for me.

I've been watching, but I'm not seeing many CT Clubs in Canada. There was a hock shop a couple of hours away selling a somewhat beaten-up one yesterday, but based on the photos, it wasn't worth the drive.

 

[DavesnothereCA]

....I've been watching, but I'm not seeing many CT Clubs in Canada....

~
Me neither.

There was a used trans red one which came up twice near Ottawa [acceptable driving distance for me] over the past few months, on Kijiji, and I sat on the sidelines drooling both times - not sure why.

Dunno the reason that the 2nd guy put it back for sale not all that long after buying it, but someone else must have have bought it from him, after a few days.

Mayhaps it will come up again.

BTW, Thomann was showing stock of new CT Club basses a couple of days ago, but IIRC only in black, and I think that they have had those for rather a while.

Also, there have been rumours that the CT line had been disco'd, which would make choice of new ones worse with each passing while.
~

 

[steve_rolfeca]

Philipp Rhem also does melodic solo stuff on a megabuck Dingwall SJ.

There are technical aspects of parts of his Dingwall recordings that blow the Hofner demos out of the water, yet I’d honestly rather listen to him play the Bach piece on an Ignition…

 

[steve_rolfeca]

Tuner update...

My Club is crazy light for a single-cut with a 15" lower bout- 5lb, 4oz. With such a short body and no upper horn, I didn't want to spoil the balance by installing heavy sealed bass tuners.

Grover and Gotoh both make guitar with the right screw hole spacing, although both require a bit of peghead reaming for the bushings.

The Gotohs (SX series) have the same 15:1 gear ratio as the stock Ignition tuners. Grover 97-18 Sta-Tites seemed like a better option because of the 18-to-1 gear ratio.

Unfortunately, everybody's out of stock, with no expected shipping date. A few eBay vendors have them in gold, but I won't pay over $100 Canadian for mismatched tuners...

Gotohs was just as bad. No stock anywhere, long lead times, and a stiff price increase on the way.

Thankfully, solomusicgear.com had Wilkinson WJ28n's in stock. The gears looked well-cut and at 19:1, ought to be a little smoother than the Grovers. They're supposed to be an exact fit for the Hofner ferrules, so that sealed the deal.

They arrived in 3 days, and look great in person. The tension adjustment is at the end of the knob and works well. However, I didn't need to use it- they are very smooth, with almost no slop.

The posts are the perfect length for the Hofner, and although the shafts are longer than the stubby stock tuners, the slightly smaller button makes them look reasonably proportional.

I still cringe at the stock tuner installation and decal placement. There isn't a single parallel line:

As you can see, the shafts are a little long, but the slightly smaller button keeps them from looking too goofy. Look at the gearing difference, and the beefier build:

I used a toothpick to fill the old screw holes for the D string, and drilled new holes with a pin vise to fix the positioning.

Unfortunately, that made the E and A alignment look even worse. That will have to wait until the next time I feel like doing a bit of tinkering:

As you can see from the front view, the longer shafts look OK in the flesh. There are pearl buttons on eBay, but I don't think I'll bother:

I highly recommend this mod. It no longer feels like it's going to break as the strings approach concert pitch , and tuning is very smooth. There's no overshoot and no slop.

These actually feel better than the last set of Waverley's I tried.

 

[Doctor Intrepid]

Tuner update...

My Club is crazy light for a single-cut with a 15" lower bout- 5lb, 4oz. With such a short body and no upper horn, I didn't want to spoil the balance by installing heavy sealed bass tuners.

Grover and Gotoh both make guitar with the right screw hole spacing, although both require a bit of peghead reaming for the bushings.

The Gotohs (SX series) have the same 15:1 gear ratio as the stock Ignition tuners. Grover 97-18 Sta-Tites seemed like a better option because of the 18-to-1 gear ratio.

Unfortunately, everybody's out of stock, with no expected shipping date. A few eBay vendors have them in gold, but I won't pay over $100 Canadian for mismatched tuners...

Gotohs was just as bad. No stock anywhere, long lead times, and a stiff price increase on the way.

Thankfully, solomusicgear.com had Wilkinson WJ28n's in stock. The gears looked well-cut and at 19:1, ought to be a little smoother than the Grovers. They're supposed to be an exact fit for the Hofner ferrules, so that sealed the deal.

They arrived in 3 days, and look great in person. The tension adjustment is at the end of the knob and works well. However, I didn't need to use it- they are very smooth, with almost no slop.

The posts are the perfect length for the Hofner, and although the shafts are longer than the stubby stock tuners, the slightly smaller button makes them look reasonably proportional.

I still cringe at the stock tuner installation and decal placement. There isn't a single parallel line:

View attachment 4655981


As you can see, the shafts are a little long, but the slightly smaller button keeps them from looking too goofy. Look at the gearing difference, and the beefier build:

View attachment 4655979

I used a toothpick to fill the old screw holes for the D string, and drilled new holes with a pin vise to fix the positioning.

Unfortunately, that made the E and A alignment look even worse. That will have to wait until the next time I feel like doing a bit of tinkering:

View attachment 4655977

As you can see from the front view, the longer shafts look OK in the flesh. There are pearl buttons on eBay, but I don't think I'll bother:

View attachment 4655978

I highly recommend this mod. It no longer feels like it's going to break as the strings approach concert pitch , and tuning is very smooth. There's no overshoot and no slop.

These actually feel better than the last set of Waverley's I tried.

Those look cool. I always upgrade the Ignition tuning pegs with the HCT pegs. They are a bit bigger and seem to function very well. Plus I like the pearloid ends.

 

[steve_rolfeca]

Those look cool. I always upgrade the Ignition tuning pegs with the HCT pegs. They are a bit bigger and seem to function very well. Plus I like the pearloid ends.

I liked the HCT pegs on the Violin I sampled enough that I wouldn’t bother to upgrade them. And they are prettier.

$100-odd in Canada and unobtanium around here though. The Wilkinsons were $40-odd and readily available. This is a budget scratch-and-dent project, after all.

 

[Doctor Intrepid]

I live in Canada too and have ordered a few sets HCT pegs over the years via Reverb. Usually they are not too expensive, but go for what you like for sure.

 

[Aceonbass]

I replaced the stock tuners on my Ignition with these Grover Rotomatics. They really have the right look for the bass while being a much better tuner. I don’t notice balance being an issue.

 

[steve_rolfeca]

Starting to look into wiring options for the Ignition Club.

I'm not a Hofner traditionalist. Although I don't mind the switching setup, I am thinking about volume/volume/tone, also considering doing a three-pickup Cavern +1 setup like I did on an Epiphone Viola a few years ago- adding another pickup in the P-bass position, with a mini-toggle so you can pair the neck and bridge, neck and middle, or any pickup solo'd.

On the Viola, I found that having a pickup in the middle position made it punchier, and much more flexible.

With these musings in mind, I took a look at the cavities and the interior of the body.

As expected, everything is ply rather than solid wood, but the sides are MUCH thinner than on the Epiphone, which explains the lighter weight, extra unplugged volume and resonance. The three-ply sides are thicker than the top, though. My apologies for the iPad photo quality:

I think that someone mentioned in a previous post that they thought the Ignition might have a soundpost, like an upright. Turns out that it has a small block centered under the bridge, much like the Epiphone. This still leaves the Ignition far freer to resonate than the CT, with it's large center block and flat back.

The top seems to be 4-ply, if you count the book-matched spruce veneer on the top of the Club:

The interior finish reminds me of lower-end Chinese Epiphones- fairly tidy in visible areas, but pretty crude where the sun doesn't shine. Also, the interior of the body is mostly sealed, with a light, roughly-applied clear coat.

I ordered a Violin-bass pick guard off eBay this afternoon, so I will have some matching material to work with if I do decide to make a new control plate.

What pot values do most people use?

 

[Aceonbass]

This is my extensively modded Ignition.

 

[mongo2]

I've played a Hofner Ignition Club bass since they were first introduced and an Ignition violin bass before than but I never liked the Hofner control scheme.

Eventually I replaced the Hofner control panel with the V/V/T control panel from a defunct Epiphone Allen Woody Rumblekat bass. The small pots from the Epi fit the routing for the Hofner but I had to drill eight new holes for the controlplate screws since the Epi control panel is a bit larger than the Hofner. I found the tortoise of the Epi panel to look better to me with the Hofner sunburst than the original pearl expecially after I darkened the edges of the Epi panel with a brown magic marker.

After switching to V/V/T controls I found the tone to open up a bit.

As far as I can tell the Epi pots are 500 K-ohms. I just metered across the terminals of the tone pot and it measured 495 K-ohms.

I use D'Addario nylon tapewound strings on my Club. I tried Labella but I don't like the tone with them. I did have to opend up the holes on the tuner posts of the E and A strings to accomodate the wider diameter D'Addario strings. Otherwise the tuners seem to be sufficient to the task. I removed some of the silk wrap at the tuner end to keep it off of the nut. I applied clear nail polish to the cut end of the wrap wto keep it from unrevelling further.

I've considered installing a third pickup on my Club in the P-bass appropriate position and rewiring the Epi controls to be V/V/V (since I found I never use the tone control). I've even scavenged the pickup and the front of a damaged Ignition viiolin bass to use as a router template. I just haven't gotten around to it yet.

 

[DavesnothereCA]

Tuner update...

My Club is crazy light for a single-cut with a 15" lower bout- 5lb, 4oz. With such a short body and no upper horn, I didn't want to spoil the balance by installing heavy sealed bass tuners.

Grover and Gotoh both make guitar with the right screw hole spacing, although both require a bit of peghead reaming for the bushings.

The Gotohs (SX series) have the same 15:1 gear ratio as the stock Ignition tuners. Grover 97-18 Sta-Tites seemed like a better option because of the 18-to-1 gear ratio.

Unfortunately, everybody's out of stock, with no expected shipping date. A few eBay vendors have them in gold, but I won't pay over $100 Canadian for mismatched tuners...

Gotohs was just as bad. No stock anywhere, long lead times, and a stiff price increase on the way.

Thankfully, solomusicgear.com had Wilkinson WJ28n's in stock. The gears looked well-cut and at 19:1, ought to be a little smoother than the Grovers. They're supposed to be an exact fit for the Hofner ferrules, so that sealed the deal.

They arrived in 3 days, and look great in person. The tension adjustment is at the end of the knob and works well. However, I didn't need to use it- they are very smooth, with almost no slop.

The posts are the perfect length for the Hofner, and although the shafts are longer than the stubby stock tuners, the slightly smaller button makes them look reasonably proportional.

I still cringe at the stock tuner installation and decal placement. There isn't a single parallel line:

View attachment 4655981


As you can see, the shafts are a little long, but the slightly smaller button keeps them from looking too goofy. Look at the gearing difference, and the beefier build:

View attachment 4655979

I used a toothpick to fill the old screw holes for the D string, and drilled new holes with a pin vise to fix the positioning.

Unfortunately, that made the E and A alignment look even worse. That will have to wait until the next time I feel like doing a bit of tinkering:

View attachment 4655977

As you can see from the front view, the longer shafts look OK in the flesh. There are pearl buttons on eBay, but I don't think I'll bother:

View attachment 4655978

I highly recommend this mod. It no longer feels like it's going to break as the strings approach concert pitch , and tuning is very smooth. There's no overshoot and no slop.

These actually feel better than the last set of Waverley's I tried.

~
This is all verrrrry interesting [and thanks also for the pics], but all in all, I have not experienced tuning issues with my Ignition Club, so am inclined to leave the stock tuners on it, primitive as they are, and tinker with / spend money on something else, maybe related to another bass.

I will try to remember to take a look at mine for alignment though, as yours did look like they were installed on a certain notorious day of the week.

BTW, I forget whether you've said so before, but what strings are those on your bass - DR Legends ?

Last week, I installed some LaBella 760FL-S DT Flats [43-60-82-104, 32.25" of wrap] onto another short scale bass of mine, and am very pleased with the sound, feel, tuning stability, and gauge balance.

Those particular strings would fit my Ignition Club, if I had not already put LaBella LT Flats onto it, but depending upon the measurements, either of those sets may or may not fit other Hofner basses, so readers, please measure your bass from ball to nut, before ordering ANY strings.
~

 

[steve_rolfeca]

~
…BTW, I forget whether you've said so before, but what strings are those on your bass - DR Legends ?

Last week, I installed some LaBella 760FL-S DT Flats [43-60-82-104, 32.25" of wrap] onto another short scale bass of mine, and am very pleased with the sound, feel, tuning stability, and gauge balance.

Those particular strings would fit my Ignition Club, if I had not already put LaBella LT Flats onto it, but depending upon the measurements, either of those sets may or may not fit other Hofner basses, so readers, please measure your bass from ball to nut, before ordering ANY strings.
~

LaBella has two Hofner-specific sets. One is gauged to be roughly equivalent to the stock strings, the other is a little heavier.

I got the Legends because they were the only thing available locally. I like them, but I’m waiting for the heavier LaBella set to arrive.

 

[Doctor Intrepid]

Starting to look into wiring options for the Ignition Club.

I'm not a Hofner traditionalist. Although I don't mind the switching setup, I am thinking about volume/volume/tone, also considering doing a three-pickup Cavern +1 setup like I did on an Epiphone Viola a few years ago- adding another pickup in the P-bass position, with a mini-toggle so you can pair the neck and bridge, neck and middle, or any pickup solo'd.

On the Viola, I found that having a pickup in the middle position made it punchier, and much more flexible.

With these musings in mind, I took a look at the cavities and the interior of the body.

As expected, everything is ply rather than solid wood, but the sides are MUCH thinner than on the Epiphone, which explains the lighter weight, extra unplugged volume and resonance. The three-ply sides are thicker than the top, though. My apologies for the iPad photo quality:

View attachment 4662276

I think that someone mentioned in a previous post that they thought the Ignition might have a soundpost, like an upright. Turns out that it has a small block centered under the bridge, much like the Epiphone. This still leaves the Ignition far freer to resonate than the CT, with it's large center block and flat back.

The top seems to be 4-ply, if you count the book-matched spruce veneer on the top of the Club:

View attachment 4662277

The interior finish reminds me of lower-end Chinese Epiphones- fairly tidy in visible areas, but pretty crude where the sun doesn't shine. Also, the interior of the body is mostly sealed, with a light, roughly-applied clear coat.

I ordered a Violin-bass pick guard off eBay this afternoon, so I will have some matching material to work with if I do decide to make a new control plate.

What pot values do most people use?

Not sure what you mean by CT, but the HCTs do have curved backs even with the Cavern spacing for the pickups. The German Caverns have flat backs, though.