Hofner-(not just Beatle Basses)-Group Part 2

[DavesnothereCA]

The saddles are pretty close to each other along the length of the strings; it looks like the problem lies in the presence of the decorative strips. Can you pry those out and either leave them out or reposition them? Then you’ll have room to position the saddles as required.

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I've not had my hands on an HCT model, and was wondering as well about those strips.

It looks like they are presently preventing moving the E and G saddles very far, which may have led to moving the whole bridge instead, in order to try to get the same result, which in turn would likely put the A and D at the wrong lengths.
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[nattiep]

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Let me begin by admiring the colour !

I had two chances to buy a trans red HCT Club like it during the past year or so [the same bass from two consecutive owners], but I waited too long and it sold - TWICE.

Anyway, at first glance, your entire bridge seems to be positioned the opposite of what I would expect.

Normally, Hofner Club and Beatle basses intonate properly when the bridge body is parallel to the edge of the pickup, or with the E side slightly further away, and the strings usually one per slot, in a diagonal pattern.

But if you did that, your tuner would likely say that the E is flatter at the 12th fret than it already reads now.

[I only had to move one of my strings one slot away from where it began.]

OK, so those look like the LaBella Beatle set which has gauges from 50 to 100, true ?

Is the G string intonated correctly in the picture ?

Will your tuner display all possible notes - IOW is it chromatic ?

I would be curious to know how other notes than open and 12th fret read, on the E string, to see whether there is a trend to what is happening.

It could be a wonky string.

How old are they ?
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Probably 8 months or so for the string age. They're the set with the 96 E. Maybe I should get the next gauge up. The G was pretty close in that picture but probably went out as I was cranking the bridge so far off.

I have a polytune so it's saying that the E is flat in the standard position. Those strips do keep me from moving the E saddle up and keep the proper spacing. I'm not sure if I should attempt to get another bridge to see if that'll help as well. I was able to get it close before with the E in the second slot, A in the first (lowest), D in the fourth (highest) and G in the second. But even then the E was out of tune. I had to tune it sharp to get the 5th fret A even close.

 

[DavesnothereCA]

Probably 8 months or so for the string age. They're the set with the 96 E. Maybe I should get the next gauge up. The G was pretty close in that picture but probably went out as I was cranking the bridge so far off.

I have a polytune so it's saying that the E is flat in the standard position. Those strips do keep me from moving the E saddle up and keep the proper spacing. I'm not sure if I should attempt to get another bridge to see if that'll help as well. I was able to get it close before with the E in the second slot, A in the first (lowest), D in the fourth (highest) and G in the second. But even then the E was out of tune. I had to tune it sharp to get the 5th fret A even close.

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Methinks that it's more likely the gauge than the age.

A heavier string will usually need the saddle to be further South than a lighter string tuned to the same note, or to ANY note for that matter.

I suggest that you review this post, including my comment about the 39-96 LaBella Beatle Bass set :

Hofner-(not just Beatle Basses)-Group Part 2

If you have any other strings for regular basses, let me next suggest that you find an E which is 100 or heavier, and try to fit the ball into the location on your HCT's bridge, but not install the other end.

I've read that some Hofners need smaller balls, though my Ignition Club accepted regular sized ones.

What I'm trying to get you to have on your bass is an E which is perhaps 105, actually 104, if the Mustang thru-body set happens to fit at both ends.

See several posts beginning here :

Fender Mustang Club

I got a kind soul to post pics of the LaBella Mustang strings.

You will need to measure your bass from balls to tuning peg posts, to see how the full diameter portion of that set will sit, before considering ordering them, or any other strings, such as short or medium scale of certain brands.

If you gradually page back a few days from here, you will see more posts of mine, where I touch upon which other strings may fit a Hofner, at least insofar as the wrapped portion is concerned, though I have not addressed the ball size.
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[fermata]

Probably 8 months or so for the string age. They're the set with the 96 E.

This is surprising to me -- the .039 - .096 La Bella Beatle Bass strings intonated the best of any string I tried on my HCT. I consider them the ideal (flatwound) string for Hofners.

As you can see here, the E, A, and G saddles remained in their stock positions; the D moved down to the A position, and the bridge was almost parallel to the bridge pickup.

 

[DavesnothereCA]

This is surprising to me -- the .039 - .096 La Bella Beatle Bass strings intonated the best of any string I tried on my HCT. I consider them the ideal (flatwound) string for Hofners.

As you can see here, the E, A, and G saddles remained in their stock positions; the D moved down to the A position, and the bridge was almost parallel to the bridge pickup.

View attachment 4665695

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That is very similar to how mine are on my Ignition Club bass.

See my TB media collection for pics taken by previous owner with previous DR roundwound strings, but it did not change much when I later switched to LaBella short scale Low Tension Flats [42-100], and they just fit, with about 1/4" of full diameter wrap to spare past the nut.

Yes, I measured before ordering, and I understand that regular LaBella short scale strings will NOT fit all Hofner basses !
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[Slapndbayass]

Putting the bridge at an angle to intonate properly is normal.

Maccartney's bass has similar bridge angles.

 

[nattiep]

Should I just get a new set of strings and see where it goes from there?

 

[DavesnothereCA]

Should I just get a new set of strings and see where it goes from there?

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Mayhaps, but I am still curious as to how the other notes along your E string read on the tuner, while the open string and 12th fret notes are reading as you described.
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[nattiep]

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Mayhaps, but I am still curious as to how the other notes along your E string read on the tuner, while the open string and 12th fret notes are reading as you described.
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Funny enough I can get it where most of the notes are in tune but the fifth fret A is always slightly flat. Just that string.

 

[DavesnothereCA]

Funny enough I can get it where most of the notes are in tune but the fifth fret A is always slightly flat. Just that string.

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Do you have any spare 4th strings which will fit this bass ?

It would not necessarily have to be a match to the rest of your set, in order to see whether it would read better and sound more in tune, as long as it physically fits the bass.

It seems overkill to buy a whole set of strings to learn how another E string would behave.

What is the measurement from the far end of the string balls to the far edge of the nut on your bass ?

Also the distance from the far end of the string balls to the near edge of the tuning peg post of the E string ?
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[steve_rolfeca]

Funny enough I can get it where most of the notes are in tune but the fifth fret A is always slightly flat. Just that string.

I had similar problems with the factory flats on my ignition.

Tried various things, but no luck.

Then I put a set of quality strings on it, and poof.

No more intonation trouble.

 

[DavesnothereCA]

I had similar problems with the factory flats on my ignition.

Tried various things, but no luck.

Then I put a set of quality strings on it, and poof.

No more intonation trouble.

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Except that apparently the strings in question ARE of a quality brand - LaBella.

My own experience with LaBella strings so far has been good to excellent, including on an Ignition Club, where I put their Low Tension Flats [42-100], short scale set, and on a Jay Turser JTB-40 [their Mini-P bass], where I recently installed DT Flats, short scale 760FL-S set [43-104].

That said, the E of both sets which I am using is of a heavier gauge than the currently suspect string.

I'm planning to put a DT Flats 760XL [39-96] set, one of two bought nearly 2 years ago, onto my Ric 4001 sometime this year, and I expect those to be fine there, in terms of gauge, as it is a long scale bass.
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[steve_rolfeca]

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Except that apparently the strings in question ARE of a quality brand - LaBella.

My own experience with LaBella strings so far has been good to excellent, including on an Ignition Club, where I put their Low Tension Flats [42-100], short scale set, and on a Jay Turser JTB-40 [their Mini-P bass], where I recently installed DT Flats, short scale 760FL-S set [43-104].

That said, the E of both sets which I am using is of a heavier gauge than the currently suspect string.

I'm planning to put a DT Flats 760XL [39-96] set, one of two bought nearly 2 years ago, onto my Ric 4001 sometime this year, and I expect those to be fine there, in terms of gauge, as it is a long scale bass.
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I should have made myself more clear. I was just using the Ignition flats as an example, as they commonly regarded a junky, off-brand Chinese string. Just about everybody reports that a string swap makes their Ignition sound better, and play more in tune.

But any brand can have a dud once in a while. Also, strings can be damaged in handling, and in my limited experience, the construction of flats makes them easier to mess up than rounds.

The underlying principal, is this:

• Every manufacturer makes a dud string once in a while. Over the last 50 years, I’ve had the odd one here and there from D’Addario, DR, Ernie Ball, GHS, LaBella, and Thomastik. And those are pretty much the only brands I’ve ever used, except for one set of Rotosounds.
• The pitch of any fretted note on your bass is mostly determined by two witness points- the bridge saddle, and the fret.
• It’s also affected to a lesser amount by the nut height. If it’s too high, it can stretch the string from behind. However, that’s most noticeable down at the first fret, not up at the fifth.
• Assuming that the string is OK and the frets are properly crowned, the only way for any note to be out of tune at the fifth fret and not anywhere else, is if that fret isn’t where it should be.

Looking at your situation, since the string is intonated OK at the 12th fret, we already know that the position of the bridge saddle is OK.

Since you indicated that the other strings are playing in tune at the fifth, the fret placement seems to be OK.

It certainly wouldn’t hurt to take another look at that fret. But assuming that the crown looks straight all the way across, the only remaining option is a bad string.

 

[steve_rolfeca]

Whoops. There’s another factor that I forgot to mention:

• People tend to keep flats longer than rounds or tapes.
• They also swap them around, moving sets from bass to another.

If you have a problem with one string out of a used set, it doesn’t hurt to loosen it off and inspect it.

If it’s got a sharp kink in it, or the windings have been dented or worn through from repeated impact against a particular fret, that can make it play out of tune.

So can dead skin cells and grease hanging off the back of the string. As long as the windings aren’t worn through or kinked, you can usually rejuvenate dead flats at least once or twice, by boiling them in water, with a bit of vinegar added.

 

[Shawn Luckman]

Well the flatwounds arrived I went for the Hofner HCT set 40-95 for 2 reasons. Firstly they were only £20 so no guilt about wasting money on strings, even if I put it back into it's case for another decade or more.
Secondly I had only rounds on this bass from '88 to '98 before I put it away, so this is probably the second set of flatwounds it's ever had.

So the strings arrived in a different package showing that the silk ends were green, very much like the German Hofner strings which I think is a nice touch. Gave them a quick wipe down with a Brasso cloth & put them on, and gave them a day to settle on the bass. I must admit I should have put flats on this bass years ago, it sounds nice through my Rumble 200 Combo.
I can see me playing this bass a lot more & if that continues, then maybe I'll change the strings to the LaBella set. But for now I'm enjoying playing my '64 500/1 again & I'm happy with my old friend.

 

[DavesnothereCA]

I should have made myself more clear. I was just using the Ignition flats as an example, as they [are] commonly regarded [as] a junky, off-brand Chinese string. Just about everybody reports that a string swap makes their Ignition sound better, and play more in tune.

But any brand can have a dud once in a while. Also, strings can be damaged in handling, and in my limited experience, the construction of flats makes them easier to mess up than rounds.

The underlying principal, is this:

• Every manufacturer makes a dud string once in a while. Over the last 50 years, I’ve had the odd one here and there from D’Addario, DR, Ernie Ball, GHS, LaBella, and Thomastik. And those are pretty much the only brands I’ve ever used, except for one set of Rotosounds.
• The pitch of any fretted note on your bass is mostly determined by two witness points- the bridge saddle, and the fret.
• It’s also affected to a lesser amount by the nut height. If it’s too high, it can stretch the string from behind. However, that’s most noticeable down at the first fret, not up at the fifth.
• Assuming that the string is OK and the frets are properly crowned, the only way for any note to be out of tune at the fifth fret and not anywhere else, is if that fret isn’t where it should be.

Looking at your situation, since the string is intonated OK at the 12th fret, we already know that the position of the bridge saddle is OK.

Since you indicated that the other strings are playing in tune at the fifth, the fret placement seems to be OK.

It certainly wouldn’t hurt to take another look at that fret. But assuming that the crown looks straight all the way across, the only remaining option is a bad string.

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Bear in mind that it's Nattie who is having the problem - MY basses are fine.

I agree with pretty much all of your analysis, and was trying to come up with a way to confirm the reason without Nattie first buying a whole new set of strings.

As for factory strings, the only time that I regard them as any good is if the maker advertises what they are installing to be a reputable make and model, and even then I would likely change them ASAP, because they are almost always roundwounds.

Anyway, I did sleep on the situation, and thought of a way to check Nattie's bass without buying any strings.

Remove the E and G strings, and install the G in the location of the E, leaving everything else as is, and tune it to its normal pitch of G.

Check the tuner readout [and by ear] at all frets of the transplanted string, and observe whether or not the 5th fret pitch has a more consistent intonation with the pitches at the other frets.

Even if the bridge is not in the correct position for this string, if the smaller string is any good, a gradual deviation of reading is all that should be expected as we check each note going up the string.

And if that happens, then the E string has a problem, and it would be time to go shopping.
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[DavesnothereCA]

Whoops. There’s another factor that I forgot to mention:

• People tend to keep flats longer than rounds or tapes.
• They also swap them around, moving sets from bass to another.

If you have a problem with one string out of a used set, it doesn’t hurt to loosen it off and inspect it.

If it’s got a sharp kink in it, or the windings have been dented or worn through from repeated impact against a particular fret, that can make it play out of tune.

So can dead skin cells and grease hanging off the back of the string. As long as the windings aren’t worn through or kinked, you can usually rejuvenate dead flats at least once or twice, by boiling them in water, with a bit of vinegar added.

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Most of this applies to roundwounds too.

I used to boil and reuse the Roto RS66 strings which I liked for my American P bass in my rocker days [early 1970s], prior to getting my Ric.

But I never owned more than one bass at a time [even while playing fulltime on the road] until during taking a break from playing, starting in 1998.

Now, I have 15 of the beasts.

 

[DavesnothereCA]

Well the flatwounds arrived I went for the Hofner HCT set 40-95 for 2 reasons. Firstly they were only £20 so no guilt about wasting money on strings, even if I put it back into it's case for another decade or more.
Secondly I had only rounds on this bass from '88 to '98 before I put it away, so this is probably the second set of flatwounds it's ever had.

So the strings arrived in a different package showing that the silk ends were green, very much like the German Hofner strings which I think is a nice touch. Gave them a quick wipe down with a Brasso cloth & put them on, and gave them a day to settle on the bass. I must admit I should have put flats on this bass years ago, it sounds nice through my Rumble 200 Combo.
I can see me playing this bass a lot more & if that continues, then maybe I'll change the strings to the LaBella set. But for now I'm enjoying playing my '64 500/1 again & I'm happy with my old friend.
View attachment 4667906

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They sure look pretty !

But those gauges are too light for ANY short scale bass.

I wish that [most] string makers would smarten up and follow the science, in that short scale strings should be heavier rather than lighter, compared to long scale, especially the E and A.

If they did, the result would both sound and feel better, and hold tuning better too.

Case in point :

I have a set of Rotosound short scale flats [which are similar gauges to those] on another short scale bass, which its last owner had installed there, and they almost fall off the edges of the neck.

If I was to tune them mayhaps 3 frets above standard pitch, then they would feel better etc, however it wouldn't really be a proper bass anymore, now would it ?

BTW, I'll bet that LaBella strings are dear in UK, yes ?
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[Shawn Luckman]

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They sure look pretty !

But those gauges are too light for ANY short scale bass.

I wish that [most] string makers would smarten up and follow the science, in that short scale strings should be heavier rather than lighter, compared to long scale, especially the E and A.

If they did, the result would both sound and feel better, and hold tuning better too.

Case in point :

I have a set of Rotosound short scale flats [which are similar gauges to those], which its last owner put onto another short scale bass which I bought, and they almost fall off the edges of the neck.

If I was to tune them maybe 3 frets above pitch, then they would feel better etc, however it wouldn't really be a proper bass anymore, now would it ?

BTW, I'll bet that LaBella strings are dear in UK, yes ?

Thank you & yes hey do look good on my Violin Bass I'm happy with them . Just been looking at the LaBella Beatle Set and they come in at around £48, which isn't as bad if they are going to be on there a while.
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[DavesnothereCA]

They sure look pretty !

[snip]

BTW, I'll bet that LaBella strings are dear in UK, yes ?

Thank you & yes they do look good on my Violin Bass. I'm happy with them . Just been looking at the LaBella Beatle Set and they come in at around £48, which isn't as bad, if they are going to be on there a while.

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And what bass strings aren't [as a rule] ?!

So does the £48 include VAT ?

And also includes shipping, or is it driving to a store nearby for them ?

Our big Canadian chain Long and McQuade wants $56.99 CAD for 4 string sets of LaBella DT Flats in general, but our 13% equivalent to VAT is added to that, plus either shipping or fuel to drive to one of their stores.

For me, the shipping would be the lesser evil, and not all of their branch stores have all sets in stock anyway.

£48 is about $78 CAD at present, BTW.

If I ordered those from USA, I would pay $42.95 USD plus a modest shipping fee, usually nothing extra at the border, and there is more likely a wider variety in stock there than online from L&M.

I would expect that you'd do better than me on strings made in Europe, the ones which you just ordered being an example.

To get those, I would likely need to ask Thomann, and their shipping from Germany is fast but their minimum price to ship anything to here from there is too expensive for lower priced items such as a set or two of strings.
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