Well, I feel properly chastised. I didn't realize we were having an examination here, I thought we were allowed to ruminate. But I've been told to shut up and go away, so I'm going to do just that. I'll be more careful in the future not to speculate on theoretical matters. I didn't realize that was forbidden, but now I know.
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Double Bass Hole in the Heart (5 String) Double Bass idea.
- Thread starter Oscar Stern
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I know. I wasn't going to say more here...
I'd just observe that it appears that the OP has already achieved his goal.
5 string Double Bass is cool but actually they would benefit from a "Hole in the Heart Conversion"
You may think so, but I doubt it.
You will loose a lot of higher partials (more correctly their volumes) because the clamping between soundpost and bridge foot forces smaller vibrant areas that radiate higher frequencies.
Dropping these high frequencies makes the bass sound baddy and dull and due to the attenuated partials the pitch is hard to hear in the low end. On the higher strings and positions the bass will sound quiet and dull since the resonance of the top hardly supports the higher partials and maybe even the fundamental for these pitches.
Please note that instruments that had a hole in the top for a combined bridge leg and soundpost were never built in the double bass range of frequencies. What might have worked for higher pitched instruments might no longer work at very low pitched instruments like the double bass.
BRW, my 5-string is not available for testing your idea.
Yes. It’s called the Dunning-Kruger effect.
I understand the idea of increasing the relative volume of the fundamental over the harmonics. But, even assuming the surgery would accomplish this on a double bass, our perceived acoustic volume mostly comes from the territory of the second harmonic. This is why people sometimes perceive pizz on a plywood bass to be louder, a different set of harmonics get more amplitude. Weirdly, even if it "worked," the result might sound dead.
I think it's also worthwhile to note that the crwth (Why the quotations around the name? Just because it's Welsh doesn't make it a fake word or something fanciful and made up!) had an entirely flat top. So the longer bridge foot going through a soundhole and resting on the back of the instrument, as much as it may have functioned as a primitive early soundpost (remember, those are fairly new as far as these stringed instruments ago, even the Violin family's closest relatives didn't have soundposts originally), was probably also just to take some of the pressure off of the top so that it didn't cave in on itself. It didn't have the arching to give it strength.
As for the rest of this idea, five string basses already struggle both in terms of harmonic content to the sound and general volume at the best of times because of the added pressure on the top from the fifth string stopping the top from vibrating as freely. Others in here have already pointed out that a lot of what our ears are really latching onto hearing double basses at their frequency range are the higher partials and then using that to support or even fill in the rest of the information underneath, so boosting the fundamental at the expense of those higher partials is unlikely to sound good even if you're getting a useable sound from it at all. Add on that it's unnecessarily weakening the top, one which you're already putting extra pressure on and right in the area where that pressure is going, and owing to the difference in plate thickness, graduation pattern (Bass tops have more in common with violin backs than violin tops a lot of the time!), and plate tuning, and I can't see this being a good idea in any way. At least the crwth had the extra long bridge foot going through a hole that was meant to be there from the beginning.
But if you've got the money to do it, go for it, if only because I think it'll be funny.
As for the rest of this idea, five string basses already struggle both in terms of harmonic content to the sound and general volume at the best of times because of the added pressure on the top from the fifth string stopping the top from vibrating as freely. Others in here have already pointed out that a lot of what our ears are really latching onto hearing double basses at their frequency range are the higher partials and then using that to support or even fill in the rest of the information underneath, so boosting the fundamental at the expense of those higher partials is unlikely to sound good even if you're getting a useable sound from it at all. Add on that it's unnecessarily weakening the top, one which you're already putting extra pressure on and right in the area where that pressure is going, and owing to the difference in plate thickness, graduation pattern (Bass tops have more in common with violin backs than violin tops a lot of the time!), and plate tuning, and I can't see this being a good idea in any way. At least the crwth had the extra long bridge foot going through a hole that was meant to be there from the beginning.
But if you've got the money to do it, go for it, if only because I think it'll be funny.
It's because of the language; Welsh words of fewer than a dozen letters get quotation marks. In most Scrabble games to be marketed globally each player gets seven tiles. There's a reason why games intended for sale in Wales give each player thirty tiles.
Can you imagine what the Fender headstock logo would have looked like if Leo had been Welsh?
yup. i own a dog training business. this advice is common with vets..
not to go off topic, but its also maddening when they suggest it as a solution to a behavioral problem.
it cannot, ever, no matter what they say, change behavior for the better.
PLEASE take this thread off topic, if we can't just let it die!
"groooooove" said:
What if you just took one of them and then with eye contact were like "you wanna keep the other one, we're gonna have to get a few things straight you mix-breed half-eunech ..."?
Isn't a hole in the heart a defect which has to be fixed with surgery?
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This thread implies that there is something inherently WRONG with every 5 string double bass. I believe that's where the thesis breaks down right there.
Upton regularly builds 5 string uprights. I tried one, I didn't find that Upton matched their reputation.
But there was nothing inherently WRONG with it, except perhaps the incompetent nut behind the bass (me)...
Upton regularly builds 5 string uprights. I tried one, I didn't find that Upton matched their reputation.
But there was nothing inherently WRONG with it, except perhaps the incompetent nut behind the bass (me)...
Agreed, and there's less invasive ways to get a good sound out of a 5 string. I play 5 sting built by bassist/luthier Kent McLagan. My only main request was for my bass to have a strong pizzicato response on the low B, so Kent decided to shorten the string length a little (he usually makes basses with a 42" or 43" string length, but mine is 41") which allowed for less weight on the top and for him to make a slightly thinner top, thereby making it not as heavy as your standard 5 string. The B string has a very clear and resonant sound, both pizzicato and arco.
Actually, No.....A hole in the heart allows for a more thorough and rapid dispersal of blood within the human body. It's a Feature, not a Bug.
Note: I am not a Vascular Surgeon, or even a doctor, or an EMT, or a Boy Scout with a First Aid Merit Badge, but I am a 20yr. old HS graduate with a profound interest in DIY Cardio Vascular upgrades and "out of the box" thinking and solutions (to non-existent problems), that are both untested & unproven.
Now, if you'll excuse me, I'm late for my weekly meeting of the "Hole In The Hull Yacht Club".
There's still nothing to indicate that the OP has firsthand experience with any double bass, five string or otherwise, so any claims to have identified and solved an inherent problem with them ring more than a little hollow.
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