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Hollow body advice please

Hey Jeff - thanks for looking. I tracked down this site on violin construction which talks about the sound post and bass bar and how they interplay with the bridge for transferring the sound. The stuff I've seen from archtop luthiers suggest they use a sound post as well but there's no mention of the bass bar. It could just be a violin thing.

If you're interested there is an NOS coral neck on eBay as well as an unfinished Silvertone neck that were apparently salvaged when the old NJ Dano plant was closed. I'm hoping to use a standard Dano neck, which is what my body is supposed to be routed for. Keep in mind that Coral was a division of Danelectro so they could sell "higher end" guitars outside the Dano brand but the parts should all be interchangeable, as was the Dano philosophy to keep costs down. I would guess you could do a normal neck route and rely on varying the string hieght at the bridge. Most of these traditional archtop bridges I've seen are designed to be shaved and adjusted to fit varying string/guitar configurations. But don't take my word on it - I'm no luthier, which is why I'm down here talking to you people.
 
The sound post is right in the middle of the body where the bridge should go.

Hmmm....after looking on e-schmay, maybe I'll go baritone style on mine....
http://cgi.ebay.com/Vintage-Danelec...ryZ33036QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
Too bad the truss adjustment is at the heel on most, if not all, of those necks. I'd like to glue the neck in, but I'm taking this as a sign to do a bolt-on type joint. I still think with a bridge that tall, we're gonna have to do some sort of neck angle....
I'm also considering making my own neck. I have some leftover mahogany and bloodwood pieces lying around that could be made into a neck. I'm not a big fan of the Dano headstock shape, but maybe on an instrument like this, it's best to stick as close to 'original' as possible.
I think I'm gonna do some longhorn coral Dano research tonight.
 
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Jeff - a few caveats to consider. There was a point in time when Dano necks did not have any truss-rod at all and that neck may or may not be of that vintage. This isn't too bad a deal on a standard neck, but the baritones are a 30" scale and there are definite bowing issues to consider. If it does have a truss-rod the adjustment is at the heel and you have to take the neck off to make any adjustments. I was taken aback that even the latest Dano "Pro's" require you to remove the neck for truss rod adjustment. Not very "pro" IMHO.

I love the baritone on my double-neck. It's huge and ballsy in a large part [I think] because of the huge chamber size of the double-neck body and the humbucking lipsticks. I also replaced the standard "rosewood" bridge with a intonable metal version and got about 20% more definition and tone out of the thing.

I'm not partial to the dano headstock or the cheap-ass silk-screening they use, but you use what ya got and it is in keeping with the retro-vibe.
 
I'm not trying to hijeack your thread, Verne, but the topic fits.

I'm watching a 60's Univox Custom hollowbody (EB-2 style) on the 'bay. It's got that hideous solid black/red/yellow sunburst (it's HIDEOUS!), so I'll be refinishing/repainting. I'm thinking black. Anywho, are there any pointers to refinishing a hollowbody? They seem so delicate -- I don't want to start sanding and crack the body or do something to cause it to come unglued. :hmm:

By the way, I'd like some input on my choice of color. I've considered red, black, and natural (assuming the bare wood has nice figure). Sunburst would be cool, but it's outside my realm of expertise.
 
No problem-o teej. I hope somebody can help you out.

Quick update - I've dubbed my project the DAN-EDETTO as it's basically Dano parts put together like a Benedetto archtop. After checking around for parts, I've settled on getting the bits custom-made by luthier Paul Iverson [Bryan Adams, etc.]. Here's a peek at the comp we've settled on:

[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

He's making a custom bridge, tailpiece and finger-rest out of ebony and laminating the headstock with ebony to match. The electronics will likely be Kent Armstrong floating at the neck [maybe one at the bridge] and a K&K Sound archtop piezo running to a TRS end-pin jack. He's starting on it this week and I'm quite excited to actually be able to play it :hyper:
 
Verne Andru said:
Hello master luthiers:



2498lh.jpg


QUOTE]


Pretty cool, who made the body?
 
MAJOR METAL said:
Verne Andru said:
Hello master luthiers:



2498lh.jpg


QUOTE]


Pretty cool, who made the body?
Here's a blurb I found on the net that provides the best description I've found so far:

1960s pre-finished, handmade arch-topped and arch-backed longhorn guitar or bass guitar body were made in Japan for Coral/Danelectro by Kawai, one of the world's finest piano manufacturers.

It is a vintage sunburst hollow body with spruce top and maple back and sides with superb multi layer binding on both sides (front & back).

The date of the manufacturing is 1967/68 (Summer of Love!). They are an extremely high-quality, traditional manufactured body used on Coral guitars offered 1967-69 by then MCA-owned Danelectro of Neptune, N.J. These bodies originate from MCA's divestiture and liquidation of Danelectro's NJ facilities 1969/70.


Since I just picked up the guitar from the luthier yestday and just - and I mean literally just - finished typing out an email description for a buddy, here's where the project is at:

I left the neck and body with luthier Paul Iverson [former bass player for Bryan Adams, luthier for Larivee, etc.] a week before xmas to attach the Dano re-issue neck. During some email dialog he mentioned he could make a custom bridge, tail piece and fingerrest. All the stuff I found that was pre-fab was either crap, or wouldn't fit the body - a descent tailpiece was particularly problematic. So I told him to go ahead and make the pieces out of ebony and that there was no panic.

After the holidays [during which his shop burned down] he spent a couple of weeks trying to track down some ebony. With ebony in hand the project got bumped again because he had a panic job doing working on a couple of guitars for U2 who are just starting their new tour. The nerve - :eyebrow: LOL.

So he finally gets to trying to attach the neck and finds the center-block inside the body is so weak the body starts to break at the seams. After the panic settles, we decide to flood the inside joints with glue. Many of the 50s and 60's archtops suffer from necks and other bits coming off due to the quality of the glue [and possibly craftsmanship] used at the time and this is a Dano after all. As luck would have it, the glue trick works [imagine trying to glue all around the inside of an archtop through f-holes] and we're back on track.

Aside from him taking close to a dozen stabs at re-routing the neck pocket to get the correct angle, everything else went smoothly. He donated a set of Larivee machines [he did a job changing machines on a Larivee for a guy who let him keep the old ones - hence he simply passed the favour on to me - nice] which have the best tuning ratio and smoothness of operation I've ever experienced. He laminated the headstock with ebony and made a beautiful compensated bridge and Benedetto style tailpiece out of ebony.

Sound - now comes the moment of truth. This thing sounds totally awesome. It's much louder than I anticipated - not dreadnought loud, but for living room noodling, practice and working out progressions, it's perfect. And the tone is soooo sweet. It is the most harmonically rich tone I've heard out of a guitar, and it's so sweet - particularly on the upper 4 strings. It's strung with a set of D'addario chrome 11 flats which tend to give a dead thud to the lower 2 strings at the best of times, but it's sweet and harmonically rich nonetheless. I ordered a set of DR Zebra's - they are round wounds with alternating bronze/nickel wrap - that apparently provide the brightness and richness of an acoustic but work on electric's. The ad says they were designed specifically for archtops and similar guitars, so we'll see.

Electronics - I ordered a Kent Armstrong floating humbucker [even Paul says the Benedetto's are not worth it and he's installed a few], a Fishman endpin jack that takes 2 signals - the main one is for piezo that runs through a preamp built into the jack and the other that simply passes the signal through to the ring side of the TRS jack. When it's wired I'll have a stereo jack feeding the piezo out the main and the Armstrong out the secondary. I already have a stereo cable fabbed for my double-dano, so I'm good to go.

I got 4 x 500k thumbwheel pots which I've mounted on a PCB and wired so I'll have separate volume and tone for piezo and humbucker. I'm going for thumbwheels so the pots will be mounted on the underside of the fingerrest and not obstruct the top or get in the way. Once I get the Fishman I'll do a final test of some piezo transducers I picked up and if they work the way I expect we'll be mounting 2 piezo's on the underside of the fingerboard, inside the f-holes.

Downsides? I don't like the nut-width of the Dano neck, but I knew that going in.

I'll post pic's when I get a chance but he did such a great job it looks just like the mock-up I did except the fingerrest and pickup have not been installed yet.
 
Okay, the Danedetto [Danelectro meets Benedetto] project is 99.99% done so I thought I’d post up this project and call it a wrap.

Just to recap, this project started with a neck I had left over from a Danelectro double-neck – it was a 12/6 but I replaced the 6 neck with a baritone. I always liked the funky body shape of the Dano Longhorns and snagged an archtop body from eBay for $71 just before Xmas ’05. I took it to local luthier Paul Iverson [Bryan Adams original bass player, luthier to people like U2, David Gilmour, Sarah McLaughlin, etc. and all around nice guy] to get the neck attached. I asked him where I could get a tailpiece and bridge and he suggested, although I’m sure he’s come to regret it, that he could make them for me.

After checking some forums and doing some research into archtops I decided to keep it as pristine as possible. Benedetto is the best of the best so I used their designs as a model. Absolutely nothing was to violate the soundboard [top of the body] and all the pieces were to be in ebony to ensure the best transfer of string vibrations to the body as possible.

First step was to get rid of the cheesy Danelectro silkscreen logo on the headstock and we decided to go with an ebony laminate.

05-ebony-headstock.jpg


Paul had some Larrivee machines left over from a previous job that he graciously donated to the project. [Yeah, he was getting intrigued by what I was on about.]

06-machines.jpg


Next came attaching the neck to the body. As you can see he had to route quite a serious angle in the heel to get the neck to sit right.

02-heel-angle.jpg


Because there were some holes left over from a previous neck attachment we had to cover over, he made an oversize plate out of brass.

03-neck-plate.jpg


With the neck attached, he sculpted a Benedetto style tailpiece and floating bridge out of ebony and attached the tailpiece with a small hinge unit. You can’t see it here, but he also installed a piece of metal under the string holes with a wire running to the hinge so the strings ground properly.

04-bridge-and-tailpiece.jpg


Next the electronics. Tone wised I was looking for something that would give me a nice acoustic sound but also a jazz-box vibe so I chose to go with a Kent Armstrong floating humbucker and piezo’s. You can’t see it in the pictures, but I installed 4 piezo transducer mic’s to the underside of the soundboard inside the guitar. Paul mounted the floating humbucker on a Benedetto style ebony fingerrest [that’s what the jazz guy’s call a pickguard]. The challenge here being to ensure that nothing attached to the guitar body.

07-floating-humbucker.jpg


Here’s a view of the fingerrest where you can see the volume and tone thumbwheel pots that I’ll get to in a bit. They mount so they poke out the bottom of the fingerrest just enough so you can turn them but not enough to be noticeable. Notice how he fashioned the fingerrest so it matches the body cut-away at the neck pocket.

08-body-assembled.jpg


Here is the fingerrest removed from the body. We wired it with a connecting harness so the fingerrest can be completely removed from the guitar with 2 screws. I’m making a dummy plug so without the fingerrest it can still be used as a piezo electric sans volume and tone controls.

09-fingerrest-off.jpg


10-top-apart.jpg


To make the fingerrest “float” off the soundboard, Paul fashioned a mounting bracket from brass that attaches to the heel of the neck.

11-fingerrest-bracket.jpg


12-fingerrest-bracket-2.jpg


The fingerrest itself holds the humbucker plus a subassembly I put together for the volume and tone wiring for piezo’s and the humbucker. One of the last things to do will be to put some copper foil on the backside of the fingerrest to provide shielding for the electronics.

13-fingerrest-underside.jpg


Paul is very meticulous and made sure that the humbucker wing attachment was set into the ebony so it’s totally flush mount.

15-humbucker-back.jpg


The electronics PCB is attached by 2 screws with stand-offs.

14-fingerrest-electronics.jpg


The electronics are pretty straightforward. I found some 500K thumbwheel pots that I used throughout, .022 mf cap for the humbucker tone and a .067 mf for the piezos. Mogami shielded wiring is used throughout.

16-pots.jpg


The electronics feed to a Fishman PowerJack that doubles as an endpin jack. The PowerJack has a JFET preamp built into it and provides a stereo feed through its TRS jack. The piezo’s are wired into the preamp, run out to the fingerrest, through the volume and tone pots, then back to the PowerJack and out the TS portion of the jack. The humbucker runs out the RS side and isn’t affected by preamp.

Notice how the hinge is in direct contact with the endpin jack providing grounding for the strings. We needed a place to put the preamp’s battery, so Paul fashioned a neat little battery holder beside the endpin jack.

18-endpin-plate-off.jpg


There were some holes left over from where a previous tailpiece was attached and, as you can see, with the hinge and the battery compartment things were getting a bit messy. Paul tidied it all up with a nice ebony dress plate that nicely hides the mess and holds the battery firmly in place.

17-endpin-plate-on.jpg


Aside from shielding the back of the fingerrest and finding some black screws, the Danedetto is done.

01-Danedetto-full.jpg


As far as tone goes, this thing is a monster. I initially tried some jazz flatwounds but didn’t like how the low E and A have a dead thud to them, so I installed a set of DR Zebra strings that are alternate wound nickel and brass. It is simply the best sounding electric guitar I’ve ever played or heard. It goes from a deep mellow jazz to a huge, and I mean huge, acoustic tone. Unplugged it’s got a really nice and complex tone you expect from an archtop – not hugely loud, but definitely loud enough for what I’m looking for. Paul also did a top-notch fret-dress and setup [same as he does for U2 and Gilmour] and I must say it plays like a dream.

Thanks to everyone for your kind advice and help - it's been a ton of fun and hugely educational. Oh yeah, luthier Paul Iverson rocks! :bassist:
 
JSPguitars said:
Yup. You've got yourself a good luthier there.
Amen. There's a reason the Edge and David Gilmour get him to do their work - he's just great. I spent some time assisting him during part of the job and was totally blown away by how he approaches his work. Maybe "art" is a better way to describe it. He would come to a spot where something wasn't quite right but instead of settling for second best he kept at it until it was perfect. The difference may have been only like 3% but that didn't matter. I don't find that kind of dedication or sense of craftsmenship very much anymore and was totally impressed.

JSP - now that this one has come out I'm thinking of doing another for backup. If you have any interest in selling the body you have PM me.

Cheers - Verne
 
That came out really nice! I have one of these... been meaning to do something with it.

Oddly mine says "Destiny" on the headstock, and not Coral or Dan-O... it's in the same flat brown paint they used too!
 
From what I can gather Danelectro/Coral didn't do much with these bodies and it appears most of them were never assembled by the time they went out of business. The guy I got the body from said he had bought it with a cheap neck and tailpiece/bridge on it, leading me to believe someone at some point in time tried making a business out of slapping some cheap parts together and selling them as "guitars." It's a shame because they makes a beautiful archtop when done with a bit of thought and lots of TLC.

But now that I've posted this I've let the genie out of the bottle and it's going to be impossible to get another :-(
 
Yeah I've seen these bodies in boxes, brand new. In the book American Guitars, it makes mention that Vinnie Bell was having these bodies made for Coral.

Mine has a Danelectro/Coral neck on it, with the Coral headstock shape.. not the coke bottle head. The construction of the neck is pure Danelectro (poplar with rosewood slab fingerboard, non adjustable truss rod, etc.)

It had no other hardware on it. I'm actually getting it this weekend, so I'll take some pictures of it.
 

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