Honest opinions please... A rant.. Kinda...

[DrayMiles]

I heard from a drummer that I was tough... But, these are amateur players. I don’t expect the same discipline, but I DO expect preparedness. My email came after not seeing the guy for 5 years. I took a chance, and had to call in a vocalist and a pianist to cover for this guy’s technical degradation...
It was for the French embassy in DC...
my question is...

Is this too harsh?

Thanks,

D.

“R..


I drove an hour to get to the rehearsal to work on material for your gig carrying the upright bass. We started the tunes and IMO, it was obvious that you didn’t put in the time necessary for you to succeed at being the ONLY chordal instrument in the ensemble. That approach could be deemed a flippant disregard to the responsibility that you have in the position as guitarist. Also, it was quite hurtful for you to struggle through the material, allowing the other members to be quite uninvolved as you struggled to, not only play the tunes from the paper, but struggle to play voicings that were sonically muddy and unclear. I know that J is a wonderful vocalist, but you took a lackadaisical concern to make a first impression. You’re better than that ...

Now after I make the concession of rehearsing Monday with the intent of getting us to a point where we don’t make total pratts of ourselves in front of the audience, you want to rehearse even LATER knowing the amount of work necessary to ensure success?

Are you ———— serious?

Regarding your request for a Monday rehearsal at 7:30…

“No…” I have a previous commitment…

Either we’re going to do this for real, or this is wasting my ——- time and find someone else. I take music too seriously to be associated with a mission guaranteed to crash and burn.

You guys let me know when we’re serious or let’s not waste each others time….

I may not be playing out as much as I used to, but I’m on records in the top league of players, (hmm.. cocky .. I know TB’ers)

I checked, and I’m on more records than your drummer/brother friends and I don’t believe you would do a gig with them with the same intent as you’re doing with me. Is this a lack of respect?

You’re a good guy, but you need to fight that selfish ——… That I’ve seen in you before.

Call me if we’re seriously going to do this right… If we’re going to continue with this amateur ———…. Don’t call me and it’s a wrap…

I don’t have the patience to —— around if we’re not serious.

Love,

D.”

Lay it on me... But, read my bio if you’re inclined to understand where I’m coming from...

 

[JeezyMcNuggles]

I heard from a drummer that I was tough... But, these are amateur players. I don’t expect the same discipline, but I DO expect preparedness. My email came after not seeing the guy for 5 years. I took a chance, and had to call in a vocalist and a pianist to cover for this guy’s technical degradation...
It was for the French embassy in DC...
my question is...

Is this too harsh?

Thanks,

D.

“R..


I drove an hour to get to the rehearsal to work on material for your gig carrying the upright bass. We started the tunes and IMO, it was obvious that you didn’t put in the time necessary for you to succeed at being the ONLY chordal instrument in the ensemble. That approach could be deemed a flippant disregard to the responsibility that you have in the position as guitarist. Also, it was quite hurtful for you to struggle through the material, allowing the other members to be quite uninvolved as you struggled to, not only play the tunes from the paper, but struggle to play voicings that were sonically muddy and unclear. I know that J is a wonderful vocalist, but you took a lackadaisical concern to make a first impression. You’re better than that ...

Now after I make the concession of rehearsing Monday with the intent of getting us to a point where we don’t make total pratts of ourselves in front of the audience, you want to rehearse even LATER knowing the amount of work necessary to ensure success?

Are you ———— serious?

Regarding your request for a Monday rehearsal at 7:30…

“No…” I have a previous commitment…

Either we’re going to do this for real, or this is wasting my ——- time and find someone else. I take music too seriously to be associated with a mission guaranteed to crash and burn.

You guys let me know when we’re serious or let’s not waste each others time….

I may not be playing out as much as I used to, but I’m on records in the top league of players, (hmm.. cocky .. I know TB’ers)

I checked, and I’m on more records than your drummer/brother friends and I don’t believe you would do a gig with them with the same intent as you’re doing with me. Is this a lack of respect?

You’re a good guy, but you need to fight that selfish ——… That I’ve seen in you before.

Call me if we’re seriously going to do this right… If we’re going to continue with this amateur ———…. Don’t call me and it’s a wrap…

I don’t have the patience to —— around if we’re not serious.

Love,

D.”

Lay it on me... But, read my bio if you’re inclined to understand where I’m coming from...

Quit. No one will miss you.

 

[Roland GR 88]

Yeah, that would be a hard pass for me. If I got an expletive laden message that questioned my character like that I’d never want to so much as pass you on the sidewalk.
But, I don’t know you or your failing guitarist or your relationship to him so ........ best of luck.

 

[JRA]

Is this too harsh?

it depends!

seriously: i think it's dependent on context + the players/personalities/history involved. i'd send that same note to some... i'd modify the tone for others, but i wouldn't hesitate to be clear with anyone where business is involved. i tend to be patient and forgiving --- most of the time --- but i have a hard time suffering fools.

you're "ok" in my book....you big meanie!

 

[bass12]

As JRA pointed out, the “acceptability” of the tone of your email would depend partly on the dynamic between you and the guitarist. My impression, however, is that the email sounds more like a rant and a lecture than anything else. I would be inclined towards succinctness. The guy isn’t cutting it so there are two options: he either gets his act together or he is replaced (or you walk). If he doesn’t understand what he is doing wrong then he can ask. If he won’t budge then find another player. If he is the band leader then find another band.

 

[sean_on_bass]

Too harsh, but more importantly, overly dramatic and arrogant. If your goal is to make everyone feel like crap and potentially never want to work with you anymore, send that email. If you don't want to do the gig with these folks, then don't. I'm sure they can find another bass player who would just be happy to have the gig. In fact, PM me their contact info, LOL.

 

[Renaissance]

I heard from a drummer that I was tough... But, these are amateur players. I don’t expect the same discipline, but I DO expect preparedness. My email came after not seeing the guy for 5 years. I took a chance, and had to call in a vocalist and a pianist to cover for this guy’s technical degradation...
It was for the French embassy in DC...
my question is...

Is this too harsh?

Thanks,

D.

“R..


I drove an hour to get to the rehearsal to work on material for your gig carrying the upright bass. We started the tunes and IMO, it was obvious that you didn’t put in the time necessary for you to succeed at being the ONLY chordal instrument in the ensemble. That approach could be deemed a flippant disregard to the responsibility that you have in the position as guitarist. Also, it was quite hurtful for you to struggle through the material, allowing the other members to be quite uninvolved as you struggled to, not only play the tunes from the paper, but struggle to play voicings that were sonically muddy and unclear. I know that J is a wonderful vocalist, but you took a lackadaisical concern to make a first impression. You’re better than that ...

Now after I make the concession of rehearsing Monday with the intent of getting us to a point where we don’t make total pratts of ourselves in front of the audience, you want to rehearse even LATER knowing the amount of work necessary to ensure success?

Are you ———— serious?

Regarding your request for a Monday rehearsal at 7:30…

“No…” I have a previous commitment…

Either we’re going to do this for real, or this is wasting my ——- time and find someone else. I take music too seriously to be associated with a mission guaranteed to crash and burn.

You guys let me know when we’re serious or let’s not waste each others time….


STOP RIGHT HERE


I may not be playing out as much as I used to, but I’m on records in the top league of players, (hmm.. cocky .. I know TB’ers)

I checked, and I’m on more records than your drummer/brother friends and I don’t believe you would do a gig with them with the same intent as you’re doing with me. Is this a lack of respect?

You’re a good guy, but you need to fight that selfish ——… That I’ve seen in you before.

Call me if we’re seriously going to do this right… If we’re going to continue with this amateur ———…. Don’t call me and it’s a wrap…

I don’t have the patience to —— around if we’re not serious.

Love,

D.”

Lay it on me... But, read my bio if you’re inclined to understand where I’m coming from...

The first section of your "rant" was taking him to task for being unprepared and I assume rightfully so. I have no problem with this.

The second section struck me as more of a personal attack. I could also do without your admitted "cocky" remarks. I don't think "do you know who I am?" ever works very well. None of this section added to a professional rebuke. You even admitted upfront these are amateur players.

You live and work in an entirely different world than I do though so maybe this is acceptable. In my world the second half of your message would have me telling you rather unceremoniously where to stick your phone number.

IMHO

 

[Phaenomenal]

I think you should've waited until you could formulate an email without the expletives. Your email comes off with you showing a decided lack of class, puffing of self that wasn't necessary, and a bit deranged, imo. While I don't know the band or how poorly they perform, I think an email like this ensures they won't call you back and frankly with the way it's written, you shouldn't have even left the option for them to reach out to you and should've just said it's over don't reach out.
There are times I am mad enough to write something like this, but I wait to cool off and formulate a clear, concise, and reasoned email.
I don't know if you thought this would make them self-evaluate and improve, but I can almost guarantee nothing productive will come of this email.

 

[Downunderwonder]

Stick with the facts.

They weren't prepared. It doesn't look like they are going to get prepared on their own time. You don't have time to participate. They need to find another bass player.

 

[buldog5151bass]

There is nothing wrong with calling out people when they don't do they work. But it could have been said with a LOT more tact.

 

[gln1955]

Sounds immature and unprofessional. For all your experience, you should work on your people skills if you want to create a circle of serious musicians who want to play with you.

 

[LBS-bass]

IMO too harsh and too personal, especially since they are not pros. There are things people may not understand. All you really need to say is this:

I'm sorry that we had some issues with preparedness the other night. Let's step back and remember that all of us have a responsibility to each other to come to rehearsal knowing the material and ready to play, and that one person who doesn't prepare will embarrass the entire group come showtime.

Some people are under the impression that rehearsals are the same as practice, but that's not really how it works. Practice and learning should happen at home, and we should be coming into rehearsal with parts ready so that we can tighten it up. So let's try to do better.

To that end, since we didn't have a good session last time, we're going to need all of the allotted time for the next rehearsal. As much as I'd like to make everyone happy, I can't justify cutting back our time.

Let's work to make this better and I'll see you all next time. ​

If nothing changes after that, it's time to get harsh.

 

[LBS-bass]

BTW the above assumes that you are the one organizing the ensemble. Not sure if you are. If not, then I'd be talking with the BL about this rather than emailing anyone.

 

[Nephilymbass]

I heard from a drummer that I was tough... But, these are amateur players. I don’t expect the same discipline, but I DO expect preparedness. My email came after not seeing the guy for 5 years. I took a chance, and had to call in a vocalist and a pianist to cover for this guy’s technical degradation...
It was for the French embassy in DC...
my question is...

Is this too harsh?

Thanks,

D.

“R..


I drove an hour to get to the rehearsal to work on material for your gig carrying the upright bass. We started the tunes and IMO, it was obvious that you didn’t put in the time necessary for you to succeed at being the ONLY chordal instrument in the ensemble. That approach could be deemed a flippant disregard to the responsibility that you have in the position as guitarist. Also, it was quite hurtful for you to struggle through the material, allowing the other members to be quite uninvolved as you struggled to, not only play the tunes from the paper, but struggle to play voicings that were sonically muddy and unclear. I know that J is a wonderful vocalist, but you took a lackadaisical concern to make a first impression. You’re better than that ...

Now after I make the concession of rehearsing Monday with the intent of getting us to a point where we don’t make total pratts of ourselves in front of the audience, you want to rehearse even LATER knowing the amount of work necessary to ensure success?

Are you ———— serious?

Regarding your request for a Monday rehearsal at 7:30…

“No…” I have a previous commitment…

Either we’re going to do this for real, or this is wasting my ——- time and find someone else. I take music too seriously to be associated with a mission guaranteed to crash and burn.

You guys let me know when we’re serious or let’s not waste each others time….

I may not be playing out as much as I used to, but I’m on records in the top league of players, (hmm.. cocky .. I know TB’ers)

I checked, and I’m on more records than your drummer/brother friends and I don’t believe you would do a gig with them with the same intent as you’re doing with me. Is this a lack of respect?

You’re a good guy, but you need to fight that selfish ——… That I’ve seen in you before.

Call me if we’re seriously going to do this right… If we’re going to continue with this amateur ———…. Don’t call me and it’s a wrap…

I don’t have the patience to —— around if we’re not serious.

Love,

D.”

Lay it on me... But, read my bio if you’re inclined to understand where I’m coming from...

Comes off as a bit arrogant imo. Hell I’ve been blessed to share the stage with a lot of my music heroes but I never bring that stuff up in conversations when I feel a band member is slacking. The pros or amateurs thing is always a bit silly by the way. I know several local players that can blow most of the so called “pros” out of the water. I also know “Pros” who don’t dont even own a car. So what are they a pro at? Crashing on people’s couches?

Anywho I get where you’re coming from. It is frustrating when you put in your time and or money into a project and someone else is slacking off. I just think there’s a better way to say it that’s all. I’ve had to deal with similar situations. I drive 90 miles each way to rehearse with my band. Was at rehearsal a few weeks ago and it was cut early because a member had somewhere else to go. We had a talk about I spent almost twice as much time driving than I did playing that day and I let them know where I was coming from without bringing up music resume.

 

[Pings Bass]

Pro is as pro does. That letter doesn't come off as professional IMO.

Given your resume, why are you taking work with amateurs? Charity gig or something?

You get what you pay for. Hire pros if you don't want to work with amateurs, or turn down the job.

When I was working summer stock at a university theatre in the 80s (pro Equity actors hired to play lead roles with grad students and faculty in supporting roles), one of the pros copped a crummy attitude. "I'm working with rrrrrank amateurs!" he bellowed as he stormed off the stage at a tech rehearsal. Well... only one person came off as an amateur in that scene, that I can tell you.

 

[Oddly]

I sympathise with the understandable frustration, but a profanity-strewn arrogant unprofessional communication like that won't do any good, for the project or your reputation.

 

[DrayMiles]

Pro is as pro does. That letter doesn't come off as professional IMO.

Given your resume, why are you taking work with amateurs? Charity gig or something?

You get what you pay for. Hire pros if you don't want to work with amateurs, or turn down the job.

When I was working summer stock at a university theatre in the 80s (pro Equity actors hired to play lead roles with grad students and faculty in supporting roles), one of the pros copped a crummy attitude. "I'm working with rrrrrank amateurs!" he bellowed as he stormed off the stage at a tech rehearsal. Well... only one person came off as an amateur in that scene, that I can tell you.

I took a break from playing and I’m trying to ease back into it... In about a year and 3 months I had my wife die and other stuff, so I wasn’t ready to deal with people. So, I took a gig with guys I knew from years earlier, hoping they’d gotten better. They’re good guys, but I expect more musically... It’s my mistake...
Also, when the wife died, the guy said he would help me move... I didn’t hear from him for awhile, and then out of the blue, he invites me to a jam session?!?!
I didn’t talk to him for years and this was our first interaction...
I suspect I wasn’t being level headed...

 

[DrayMiles]

BTW the above assumes that you are the one organizing the ensemble. Not sure if you are. If not, then I'd be talking with the BL about this rather than emailing anyone.

No, he booked the gig... It was a business venture he started. I just brought in the others when it was obvious we were going to sound rough. He agreed, and we survived... He reminds me of the guy that got Peter Green out of retirement to be honest...

 

[DrayMiles]

Quit. No one will miss you.

Why thank you my good sir!

 

[micguy]

If I ever got into your situation, I'd talk to the person - in person, or at least on the phone. I wouldn't do that in an email or text - the medium isn't right for that level of honesty, and doesn't allow you to adjust your approach on the fly, which is likely necessary in that kind of conversation.