You are exactly right and your advice is the right way to do things.
Enjoy the benefits of a premium membership!
Upgrade Account
-
TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
Join free Log in
Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.
Honest opinions please... A rant.. Kinda...
- Thread starter DrayMiles
- Start date
Since that gig, I’ve told them that it’s best for us to never work together again.
Every comment here is spot on... I’m obviously not ready to gig with that ensemble. Luckily, before the pandemic, studying with Rufus Reid was perfect for teaching me more humility... Which is why I did it methinks...
I guess you dwell on your past when your present/future looks dried up...
Every comment here is spot on... I’m obviously not ready to gig with that ensemble. Luckily, before the pandemic, studying with Rufus Reid was perfect for teaching me more humility... Which is why I did it methinks...
I guess you dwell on your past when your present/future looks dried up...
Definitely a harsh message but....it's something that is needed sometimes. I come across those type of musicians on a regular basis. Quite honestly, they should never be in bands!! I put in a lot of time and effort learning songs and memorizing them (zero sheet music). Many times I offer to buy/supply the sheet music for them but it's mostly in vain!
To the OP...I get it brother! It's obvious you're a pro and they are not!! Or at least they don't act like pros!
To the OP...I get it brother! It's obvious you're a pro and they are not!! Or at least they don't act like pros!
Who do you think you are, Buddy Rich? You’d better be for peeps to take that abuse.
Amen brudda! I guess some ranters just need to feel superior to everyone. Must have something to do with working in the D.C. area.... if that really is true, which I have no way of proving or disproving.......
I do like that tape... but, I’ve worked for sooo many R&B soul legends, I’m guilty of receiving what I dished out. That’s why I’ll always remember Chuck Berry... I hope I never go that far out... but, he was right... And we weren’t in any position to complain.
And I’m not worthy...
DC or the DMV is actually the most egotistical area I’ve ever lived in... and it doesn’t involve music.
But I blame myself for putting myself in a situation with amateurs that don’t understand the pro mentality. I needed to realize who I was dealing with, although I believe he went beyond being unprepared.
But, darn... At least know tunes you picked!
Translation:
"I only have myself to blame, really... for working with such terrible musicians".
For what it's worth, I don't blame you for wanting to say what you said. There have been many times when I've felt like I wanted to shake a few people up to help them figure things out, and I can get hot under the collar too. But the bottom line is always that kindness counts, and sitting on our anger for a day or two to gain perspective is always better. Sounds like you are just not a good match with this bunch.
I think that many people who play casually as a hobby do not really understand the concept of practice vs. rehearsal. I am playing now with a group that I have to gently rein in on that concept from time to time, and ALL of them are seasoned musicians, but they have other jobs and they're doing this on the side. I have more free time than they do. I get that. But at times I get frustrated when the BL sends out a song list for practice the day before we're supposed to rehearse.
If it were complicated music, I'd not tolerate it, but it's blues. I still need to know what sort of blues I'm going to be playing on all of these songs; it's not just show up and sink or swim when we are practicing right now to cut a live promotional video. We need to be good. I need to know what kind of rhythm I'm playing and what sort of pattern I'm playing because even with 145 chording it's not all the same with how I walk through those changes.
So sometimes I will do things like take notes and type out a song list just because I, personally, need to make sure I'm touching on the material every single day. And when I hear people say things that indicate the only time they play is when we get together, I want to tear my hair out.
I've heard Buddy Rich was a jerk as a band leader.... If you're as good as Buddy Rich and in this case, the BL, I'd say it's not an issue. If not, I'd agree with those above, this is something you say in person....
There's nothing worse than sending things out in email... they have a tendency to come back and haunt you and a lot of times the emotion in an email can be missed. IE...were you screaming mad, or were you more concerned about the welfare of the band...
EDIT..... I feel like I just copied Steves comment about Buddy Rich... I'd say great minds think alike... but I'd be overestimating at least one of the party's involved... Hint...It's not steve....
There's nothing worse than sending things out in email... they have a tendency to come back and haunt you and a lot of times the emotion in an email can be missed. IE...were you screaming mad, or were you more concerned about the welfare of the band...
EDIT..... I feel like I just copied Steves comment about Buddy Rich... I'd say great minds think alike... but I'd be overestimating at least one of the party's involved... Hint...It's not steve....
Last edited:
I think a simple, polite, "I'm no longer interested in this project" would suffice.
Although your creds are impressive, this kind of message may cause you to be viewed as difficult, and perhaps arrogant. And, as we both know, negative comments about others prevail in today's society. I opine your message may backfire and cause you to be the target of negative comments and criticism. This certainly won't be a positive advantage in being able to create or be invited to participate in future projects. For me, it wouldn't be worth the risk.
I think your choice about this is quite clear and very simple....do you want to be your own best ally or worst enemy? Chill a bit and decide who you want to be.
Hope this helps.
Koog
Although your creds are impressive, this kind of message may cause you to be viewed as difficult, and perhaps arrogant. And, as we both know, negative comments about others prevail in today's society. I opine your message may backfire and cause you to be the target of negative comments and criticism. This certainly won't be a positive advantage in being able to create or be invited to participate in future projects. For me, it wouldn't be worth the risk.
I think your choice about this is quite clear and very simple....do you want to be your own best ally or worst enemy? Chill a bit and decide who you want to be.
Hope this helps.
Koog
Good responses, OP, to good feedback. Just as email is not the best format to bring up things that can be emotionally charged, neither are letters. Written stuff is permanent and can be circulated or even re-read long after what happened. The best players I know are very humble and do not boast about their accomplishments. They are grateful to receive compliments and are almost surprised because they know there is always something else to work on to become better musically.
You probably should have called him on the phone, and adjusted your approach if needed. And, my biggest question is, why work with amateurs if you consider yourself a pro and why have these expectations of amateurs? There are pro players and there are also players, pro or amateur, with pro attitudes. But then, some just do not have the skills to do the job. Lack of skills and a time deadline is not a good mix and most people will just shut down. Maybe they really did try, but they just could not get the parts down.
My solution for creating opportunities to play with better players and/or players with a more pro mindset, especially now with limited gigs, is to work on becoming a better player, at least aspire to the pro level, and continue to try to be that person, skills wise and personality wise, that people want to call and book gigs with. By doing this, I have attracted better players into my musical life and it is easier for me to say no to, as an example, jamming with a singer I did a gig with who really could not sing on key that I did that gig with several years ago when I really was not that great a player.
I am not sure who cares about your past accomplishments, what degree you might have, or even what great equipment your own. What people care about it someone who acts professionally, prepares for the rehearsal, gets and job done, and is easy to work with.
You probably should have called him on the phone, and adjusted your approach if needed. And, my biggest question is, why work with amateurs if you consider yourself a pro and why have these expectations of amateurs? There are pro players and there are also players, pro or amateur, with pro attitudes. But then, some just do not have the skills to do the job. Lack of skills and a time deadline is not a good mix and most people will just shut down. Maybe they really did try, but they just could not get the parts down.
My solution for creating opportunities to play with better players and/or players with a more pro mindset, especially now with limited gigs, is to work on becoming a better player, at least aspire to the pro level, and continue to try to be that person, skills wise and personality wise, that people want to call and book gigs with. By doing this, I have attracted better players into my musical life and it is easier for me to say no to, as an example, jamming with a singer I did a gig with who really could not sing on key that I did that gig with several years ago when I really was not that great a player.
I am not sure who cares about your past accomplishments, what degree you might have, or even what great equipment your own. What people care about it someone who acts professionally, prepares for the rehearsal, gets and job done, and is easy to work with.
Last edited:
It's not often someone asks for criticism, gets it in spades, and takes the advice so gracefully.
Feeling that way is cool. Venting is cool. But people always remember how you treat them and how you made them feel. Sending a clear, firm message without rancor is a valuable skill, as @LBS-bass eloquently demonstrated.
Kindness has nothing to do with talent/skills/chops on any instrument. Being the best player around is no license to be a tool.
Feeling that way is cool. Venting is cool. But people always remember how you treat them and how you made them feel. Sending a clear, firm message without rancor is a valuable skill, as @LBS-bass eloquently demonstrated.
Kindness has nothing to do with talent/skills/chops on any instrument. Being the best player around is no license to be a tool.
Yeesh. There’s certainly a way to make a point, but if you feel compelled to communicate in that manner, the cause has already likely been lost.
I always prefer to take the high road and avoid insults and profanity when dealing with hacks. The plus side of this is there are no adverse effects on your reputation. The negative side is that you must be simultaneously crystal clear in your opinion and stance yet remain kind and respectful. A difficult task. You were crystal clear and got your point across. You failed at the kind and respectful part. Now you find it necessary to consult your fellow TBers regarding this. Hopefully you won't suffer any ill will or negative publicity from this.
It’s changed a lot... and I mean just in the last 10 years imo.
