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Honest opinions please... A rant.. Kinda...

I heard from a drummer that I was tough... But, these are amateur players. I don’t expect the same discipline, but I DO expect preparedness. My email came after not seeing the guy for 5 years. I took a chance, and had to call in a vocalist and a pianist to cover for this guy’s technical degradation...
It was for the French embassy in DC...
my question is...

Is this too harsh?

Thanks,

D.

“R..


I drove an hour to get to the rehearsal to work on material for your gig carrying the upright bass. We started the tunes and IMO, it was obvious that you didn’t put in the time necessary for you to succeed at being the ONLY chordal instrument in the ensemble. That approach could be deemed a flippant disregard to the responsibility that you have in the position as guitarist. Also, it was quite hurtful for you to struggle through the material, allowing the other members to be quite uninvolved as you struggled to, not only play the tunes from the paper, but struggle to play voicings that were sonically muddy and unclear. I know that J is a wonderful vocalist, but you took a lackadaisical concern to make a first impression. You’re better than that ...

Now after I make the concession of rehearsing Monday with the intent of getting us to a point where we don’t make total pratts of ourselves in front of the audience, you want to rehearse even LATER knowing the amount of work necessary to ensure success?

Are you ———— serious?

Regarding your request for a Monday rehearsal at 7:30…

“No…” I have a previous commitment…

Either we’re going to do this for real, or this is wasting my ——- time and find someone else. I take music too seriously to be associated with a mission guaranteed to crash and burn.

You guys let me know when we’re serious or let’s not waste each others time….

I may not be playing out as much as I used to, but I’m on records in the top league of players, (hmm.. cocky .. I know TB’ers)

I checked, and I’m on more records than your drummer/brother friends and I don’t believe you would do a gig with them with the same intent as you’re doing with me. Is this a lack of respect?

You’re a good guy, but you need to fight that selfish ——… That I’ve seen in you before.

Call me if we’re seriously going to do this right… If we’re going to continue with this amateur ———…. Don’t call me and it’s a wrap…

I don’t have the patience to —— around if we’re not serious.

Love,

D.”

Lay it on me... But, read my bio if you’re inclined to understand where I’m coming from...

Absolutely. Uh, that’s a pretty emotional laced email you sent out. There is no need for emotional outbursts in business and this is a business.

I’m ok with you being frustrated, but as a seasoned pro, why would you want to do a big time gig with a bunch of amateurs? This is like if a bunch of house painters call you for a gig touching up some famous paintings. You could be the second coming of Michelangelo, but you know the job is not going to end well. Keep in mind, you agreed to work on the project.

Finally, it is poor form to have this sort of conversation via email. This sort of conversation should be done face to face, immediately after your rehearsal. A real pro would in calm conversation say “thanks for calling me in on this gig, but I’m not comfortable at this point putting my reputation on the line with this. You may want to find somebody else”. That’s all that needs to be said. Anything other than that is not helpful, other that to feed your ego.

As far as your bio goes, and what you’ve accomplished musically, a condescending attitude does not get you any sympathy here.
 
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Absolutely. Uh, that’s a pretty emotional laced email you sent out. There is no need for emotional outbursts in business and this is a business.

I’m ok with you being frustrated, but as a seasoned pro, why would you want to do a big time gig with a bunch of amateurs? This is like if a bunch of house painters call you for a gig touching up some famous paintings. You could be the second coming of Michelangelo, but you know the job is not going to end well. Keep in mind, you agreed to work on the project.

Finally, it is poor form to have this sort of conversation via email. This sort of conversation should be done face to face, immediately after your rehearsal. A real pro would in calm conversation say “thanks for calling me in on this gig, but I’m not comfortable at this point putting my reputation on the line with this. You may want to find somebody else”. That’s all that needs to be said. Anything other than that is not helpful, other that to feed your ego.

As far as your bio goes, and what you’ve accomplished musically, a condescending attitude does not get you any sympathy here.
Well, I’m not looking for that, but I think I let business and personal feelings mix. A bad move on my part...
 
Ive been going through this myself as of late...just tired of dealing with people who dont take it as seriously as I do. And Ive had to bite my tongue ALOT recently and try to be diplomatic. But, I will say, I have been stressing myself out more by not expressing those thoughts. I think OPs intention was fine, but I would have made it less abrasive.
 
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You seem like a legit pro, so congratulations on your successes thus far. Here’s the thing though, you let your emotions take control - big mistake.

The reception of even perfectly justified critique is almost always lost when we lose composure.

I would have presented your point from and ownership angle “Hey man, I noticed that we were struggling to stay on the same page at rehearsal; what can I do to get us tightened up?” I’d also ask if it would help for me to learn the melody lines to take the pressure off of the guitarist. The goal is always for the team to look good - not you or me - the team. I like to do anything in my power to make that happen.

Only my experience though, so take it for what ya will.
 
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Unless I totally misunderstand the meaning of the first sentence, your response was totally inappropriate.

Here is the sentence I am referring to:

''I drove an hour to get to the rehearsal to work on material for your gig carrying the upright bass."​

If it's the guitar players gig, you don't really have a say in the quality IMHO.

It sounds like you have basically committed blind to a gig that does not meet your expectations. Since time has already been invested in a rehearsal, I suggest going through with the service unless serious damage will occur to your reputation, which is highly doubtful.

If the guitarist agrees, you could try to bow out gracefully if someone else can cover the gig. But generally the expectation is you make an effort to find the sub...so you will be asking someone else to clean up a situation you perceive as a mess, which would be sort of a deuce :poop: move.

I have done sub work for some of my peers where musicianship and/or the situation turned out to be something I really did not want to deal with. But as a professional I did my best to get through the service.

I subbed on one gig where the guy showed up after the scheduled down beat and expected me to help unload and setup his gear (PA and keys) because he was handicapped. He also expected me hang out and help him tear down and load after the gig. The pay was about $50 and musicianship was pretty low (IMHO). Let's be clear, the audience did not notice or care about the quality of our playing, but it was not enjoyable for me, so this was a personal matter.

To make matters worse, he wanted to call all of the shots on solos; basically meaning he only sent stuff my way that he did not want to play, and the tunes I normally solo on he refused to offer. I am used to working with people who make eye contact, so you can accept or reject the solo...and it happens on every tune. If we are playing a super fast bop tune, chances are I will nod it off, unless I have really put in the time to work it up.

He was disappointed and upset that I didn't play ever solo he tried to send my way, and I was :mad: and frustrated with his crappy time and leadership style, but I remained courteous, got through the gig, and helped him load his gear even though he really seemed to be screwing around and going about it as slowly as he could.

I told the guy who asked me to cover the gig, never again. Unfortunately, this came off reflecting poorly on me, but probably not as bad as it would have if I had done what I felt like doing, which was leaving in the middle of the gig.

Actually I have felt like that on several sub gigs I have done. There are lots of working bands that perform at a really low quality level. The don't play well, but they know a lot of material, and they work cheap so they get lot's of work. Not my thing. I am more into situations where the expectation is to prepare and play well, rather than be able to pull a bunch of rabbits out of my rear end. So I guess I don't have the right skills or attitude for this class of work.

For context, both of the players who asked me to sub for them were far better than I was, and they were happy with the jobs they asked me to sub on. So I guess the problem was really me.

My advice is be a bit more careful about the jobs you take; make sure they meet your expectations before you make a commitment.
 
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Well, I’m not looking for that, but I think I let business and personal feelings mix. A bad move on my part...

It’s pretty common in the arts...LOL.

In my case, I’ve mostly worked with entities where you’d better be prepared, or else you are gone. That is the expectation upfront all parties, no excuses.

I’ve also been in situations where project development time is too short for the talent at hand, which I believe happened in your case. With that situation, I can figure that out 3 songs into the first rehearsal, and have no problem walking away from that obligation if it’s not workable.
 
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I wrote this to him and explained what I was guarding against regarding playing bass...
“Have you ever had an empty jar, and you’re using a spoon to get the last remnants of what filled it?

That’s how I feel about playing bass. There’s no joy there, but you desperately clink your spoon against the sides, hoping for enough residue to remind you of a pleasant taste you can hardly remember.
Gigs treated with a throwaway attitude take me back to this feeling and I’m trying to avoid that...”
That was my demeanor also... So I obviously put myself in a no win situation. I’m sure most people here have done gigs where you’re dragging everyone to mediocrity. And they can’t hear certain things....
It’s not fair for me to expect them to come up to my standard, or for me to drop to theirs... Best to avoid the gig ...
BUT...
The best gig I’ve done in a decade wasn’t rehearsed. It was the caliber of players and we were listening to each other and watching...
 
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I am a professional as well, and never had any other kind of job.
If you’re doing this gig as a favour, playing with amateurs - and your reputation is such that it can’t be ruined by one less than stellar show, - don’t take it so seriously.
I’d just laugh it off, knowing that people realize I can play better than some amateur band I sat in with once.
Because I keep really high standards with my peers, it doesn’t mean I treat amateur ‘hobbyists’ that way.
It’s like playing with little kids.
Fun & not serious.

Having said that, I have considered MURDER against some professionals I’ve actually been in bands with.:smug:
 
But, passion can leak into rational thinking if you’re not paying attention...
I said it blunt. You asked us to. But, I'll elaborate a bit.

Quit. Don't do business with people that don't share your ethics, level of responsibility, or respect for the job. It always ends up being well more of a burden that you have to deal with. You. They won't.

They'll find another bass player, and get along just fine. You join another group (of like minded individuals), and you will too. It's just not worth the hassle to draw the same things out til you explode.
 
I said it blunt. You asked us to. But, I'll elaborate a bit.

Quit. Don't do business with people that don't share your ethics, level of responsibility, or respect for the job. It always ends up being well more of a burden that you have to deal with. You. They won't.

They'll find another bass player, and get along just fine. You join another group (of like minded individuals), and you will too. It's just not worth the hassle to draw the same things out til you explode.
Good point.
 
I am a professional as well, and never had any other kind of job.
If you’re doing this gig as a favour, playing with amateurs - and your reputation is such that it can’t be ruined by one less than stellar show, - don’t take it so seriously.
I’d just laugh it off, knowing that people realize I can play better than some amateur band I sat in with once.
Because I keep really high standards with my peers, it doesn’t mean I treat amateur ‘hobbyists’ that way.
It’s like playing with little kids.
Fun & not serious.

Having said that, I have considered MURDER against some professionals I’ve actually been in bands with.:smug:
I remember rehearsing with an African artist with a deal that was so bad, I left the rehearsal and went straight to the emergency room with my first panic attack years ago.
Another situation had me with a guitarist that could only play blues solos and was a horrible rhythm guitarist. I quit those situations quickly. But when I was struggling, those little gigs fed me... but I think you lose something if you take everything...